12-17-2018, 02:03 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
I have a player with a knock-back attack in a long running campaing.
Experience with this: Opportunities to knock people off of stuff is rare. The game is cyberpunk and there are lots of fights in urban cityscapes, and yet most combat is inside of buildings or on roads. There have been opportunities to knock people off highways, walkways or out of windows. But they have been rarer than I would have thought. And even when present it's not always the "knock-backer" has been the one to be in the right position or he have had other powers he rather wanted to use. Rules for knockback can quickly become tied down by details. "Should you take less damage if you slam into a wall after traveling 5y with 5y knockback than if you hit the wall immediately after 1y. How about if you are right next to it, do you still take full damage?" "Should you get a penalty to resist knockback if you do not see it coming. How about if you have your back turned?" "How does it work when the target is riding a bike, can he hold on to the handle - does this give a bonus?" "If knocked back, what does it take to fall over the edge of a railing or short wall?" "Should a big heavy powerarmour (that does not boost ST) still give a bonus to resist knockback? How about if you are just carrying something really heavy, like a big machine-gun or another person?". "How much knockback damage does it take to send someone flying through a window?" "How does knockback work in zero G?" ...and finally it's just a bit cumbersome to constantly have to calculate the actual damage from scratch every time, as the knockback distance as well as the ST/HP of the target means you have to make a new calculation every time. Note: I am not seeking for answers to all of these questions as I have them - now. They are just question we encountered in the game, which made us stop and have to make rules-decision or spend time looking up rules. So it's mostly "things to be aware of" with a knockback ability. Falling over is more important than pushing back When someone does 50 knockbackx2, it doesn't matter if your ST:10 or ST:20, you are going to be knocked back. Our player found that the most powerful part of the knockback is not so much the "moving people" as the, "have to make DX to avoid falling over". Big strong brutes might not be knocked back so many yards, but they tend to have lower DX. While high-DX targets tend to have lower ST and so have a higher penalty to avoid falling over. As, "getting back up" takes two turns, that gives you two full turns to do something while they get back up, and then you can hit them with knockback again. So it's a very powerful crowd control ability. ...except when the target have guns. Then they just keep down and shoot you. The actual damage potential from knockback is minimal. This is not the reason to take it. |
12-17-2018, 02:47 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
Just out of curiosity, what happens again if multiple hits from a rapid fire ranged attack causes knockback? You could easily have that as an alterative attack to a much more lethal ranged attack...
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12-17-2018, 05:55 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
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Being able to knock people and objects around and up like this can be useful in non-combat situations, too, especially if the amount of power you use is selectable.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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12-17-2018, 05:59 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
My players are currently moving up a narrow path, zig-zagging up a hundreds of feet high cliff. They are looking for a dragon and it's lair. The dragon has a sonic cone attack that's crushing damage with double knockback. The potential for fun and games if it hears them coming and is waiting at the top is considerable.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
12-17-2018, 06:01 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
Each hit counts separately, as they do for damage, etc.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
12-18-2018, 07:14 AM | #16 | |||||||||||||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
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It should be easier to knock someone into a 3ft wide wall than a 1ft wide wall, so maybe aiming at things within hexes should require whoever is doing the knockback to do another hit roll to "pool cue" them properly? Quote:
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High DX guys have higher "Acrobatic Stand" technique to do it in one turn. |
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12-18-2018, 07:32 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
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And unfortunately this, as this is the "double the fun" option. As for effect: This is something I have also found in my games. But overall: knockback based attack is a bit questionable usually as primary attack, but quite often very much worth the points as alternate, specially an area effect version. |
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12-18-2018, 03:02 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
I could think of one highly situational situation where Knockback Only would be a good primary attack: a character who only wants to put some distance between themselves and their assailant but doesn't want to damage them directly.
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12-18-2018, 04:40 PM | #19 |
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
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12-18-2018, 10:47 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Are Knockback Attacks worthwhile investments?
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Also very good if someone has a lot of DR or Injury Tolerance and you need breathing room or getaway. Plus it can allow you to damage secondary targets by knocking people into them. |
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