Telekinesis with Cannot Punch / Cannot Affect Self

[CeeDub]

Salutations!

Didn't want to hijack this thread, but it made me think: Would the limitations Cannot Punch / Cannot Affect Self preclude a character from using Innate Attack / Flight advantages as Alternative Abilities to the TK advantage?

[McAllister]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Salutations!

Didn't want to hijack this thread, but it made me think: Would the limitations Cannot Punch / Cannot Affect Self preclude a character from using Innate Attack / Flight advantages as Alternative Abilities to the TK advantage?

Originally Posted by Psionic Powers, p. 17

Cannot Affect Self: Due to feedback issues or a lack of
action-reaction, you cannot pick yourself up with your TK.
This only refers to your use of the Telekinesis advantage; you
are still allowed to buy Flight and justify it as “teking yourself.”

It's not my favorite book, but it's got a lot of worthwhile material.

[CeeDub]

Originally Posted by Psionic Powers, p. 17

you
are still allowed to buy Flight and justify it as “teking yourself.

Well, yes, but am I allowed to buy it as an Alternative Ability at 1/5th cost?

[McAllister]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Well, yes, but am I allowed to buy it as an Alternative Ability at 1/5th cost?

You're right, that's not addressed in the text, is it? It's a tricky one, because I feel "yes" is too permissive and "no" is too restrictive. I might call it 2/5 cost. Cannot Affect Self is still a limitation, since it takes a Ready maneuver to switch to Flight... if I had to pick one, I'd say yes, allowed at 1/5 cost.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Well, yes, but am I allowed to buy it as an Alternative Ability at 1/5th cost?

I would allow it as long as your TK is strong enough to lift yourself.

[PseudoFenton]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Well, yes, but am I allowed to buy it as an Alternative Ability at 1/5th cost?

This seems fine, subject to GM approval of the specific build (as usual).

Originally Posted by Anders

I would allow it as long as your TK is strong enough to lift yourself.

What if the flight advantage had Cannot Hover, or Gliding? Ie, it models your ability to "throw" yourself around, but not have the control to hold yourself still whilst in flight. Or you can use your TK to make yourself more weightless, which in turn can be used to steer you and slow your decent, but not actually take off etc.

It also makes sense when the TK ability works differently when "inwards" facing due to how it functions. Perhaps it grants full Flight and Enhanced Move with high handling penalties because its only really good at sudden sharp moves in single directions (although I'd suspect that Cannot Punch would be out of place here). If your TK "hands" are very "broad" then something like Requires Surface for your flight makes sense too, you're not holding yourself up, you're repelling yourself off of other surfaces (TK with Attraction/Repulsion would certainly be a good fit for this sort of alt power).

For these purposes, using standard TK wouldn't provide the nuanced limitations desired and so using an alt ability makes more sense, regardless of if your TK has enough ST to lift you or not (as it may manifest in a way that you find it easier to affect yourself than objects around you).

Do remember though - the GM's word is final, and it may be considered a point crock to limit a power by removing features that you then build back in using other powers. Generally the more complicated the build, the less likely it is to be "correct" and fair.