(RPM) Giving yourself options in combat

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I wrote up this spell for my urban fantasy campaign that was inspired by Harry's shield spell:

Shield
Spell Effects: Greater Control Energy.
Inherent Modifiers: Altered Traits, Defense Bonus Meta-trait or Altered Traits, Damage Resistance.
Greater Effects: 1 (x3).

This spell conjures an invisible shield of energy that protects the subject by moving itself when he is attacked. This can be cast to deflect or defend. When deflecting it gives the subject a +1 bonus to all Active Defenses which also stacks with other such bonuses such as those from mundane shields. When cast as a defending spell this gives you DR of 6. Both of these only protect from frontal attacks. This spell is often cast as a charm or as a Blocking spell.

Typical Casting: Greater Control Energy (5) + Altered Traits, Defense Meta-trait 1 (Directional, Front, -20%) (24) or Altered Traits, Damage Resistance 6 (Directional, Front, -20%; Force Field, +20%; Limited, Physical, -20%) (24). 77 energy (29 x 3).

DB OR DR?
You can pack an either/or statement into a ritual? Does that have an associated cost addition?

My Shield Bracelet looks like this:

Spell Effects: Greater Destroy Energy (5 energy)
Inherent Modifiers:
Altered Trait -> Damage Resistance 12 (Area Effect [+50%], Directional (Front only) [-20%], Force Field [+20%], Gadget/Breakable DR 2 [-20%], Gadget/Size -7 [-5%], Gadget/Can be stolen, quick contest [-15%], Limited Defense (kinetic attacks) [-20%], Requires Concentrate [-15%], Semi-Ablative [-20%], Requires SK:Path of Energy Role [-10%]. Total [30 energy]
Duration -> 1 day (7 energy)
Greater Effects: 1 (x3 energy)
Total = (5+30+7)*3= 126 energy, plus a re-up of 7 every morning (just before dawn, naturally)

While this spell is active, and the caster wears the associated bracelet, the caster may concentrate on the bracelet and with a successful path of magic skill role to activate, create in front of them a shield with a 2 yard radius, which protects from physical damage to the tune of 12 DR, for as long as she continues to take concentrate maneuvers.

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by Langy

If you're doing enough damage to cause a permanent injury equivalent to taking a disadvantage, then I think it's right and proper that you gain significantly more energy from it than what you'd get from doing generic HP injury. A reasonable amount would be at least 2x of the number of CP that the disadvantage costs. This is based on the following advantage:

Energy Reserve (RPM; Costs 2+ HP, -20%, One Use Only, x1/5) [0.5/level]. EDIT: Make it Costs 7+ HP and it'd be [0.2/level], meaning you'd gain x5 the disadvantage price in energy. I like this multiplier better than either of the other two mentioned here, I think.

You accept the disadvantage, which reduce your CP total by so much, and then buy an equivalent amount of energy, which you then immediately use.

Alternatively, it should be 25 energy per point the disadvantage is worth, based upon the '25 energy = 1 CP' equivalency. (Note that this means if you're willing to go permanently blind, then you can gain 1250 energy for one hella-powerful casting).

Either way, when taking on a permanent disadvantage like that you should get *way* more energy back than just the amount gained from the pure HP donation.

But "costs Hp" does not imply permanent disadvantage any more than the existing rules for sacrificing HP. I do like the conversion ratio you've generated though.

25 energy = 1 CP? Where is that written?

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

But "costs Hp" does not imply permanent disadvantage any more than the existing rules for sacrificing HP. I do like the conversion ratio you've generated though.

I was specifically referring to instances where you cut off your hand or something similar; this *would* both cost HP and be a permanent disadvantage. Basic 'costs HP' doesn't include any sort of 'cutting off body parts' or anything like that.

25 energy = 1 CP? Where is that written?

25 energy = 1 CP is from GURPS Magic, I think. It isn't explicitly for RPM, though.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

DB OR DR?
You can pack an either/or statement into a ritual? Does that have an associated cost addition?

I'd require lesser control magic in order to do it.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Langy

Alternatively, it should be 25 energy per point the disadvantage is worth, based upon the '25 energy = 1 CP' equivalency. (Note that this means if you're willing to go permanently blind, then you can gain 1250 energy for one hella-powerful casting).

I rather like this. It's a good medium between the Sacrifice rules and the regular self-sacrifice RPM rules. :-)

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

DB OR DR?
You can pack an either/or statement into a ritual? Does that have an associated cost addition?

I've seen no rules to support it either way. It was however my game and I didn't feel it made a huge impact since the traits were bundled and themed.

Originally Posted by Engurrand

My Shield Bracelet looks like this:

Spell Effects: Greater Destroy Energy (5 energy)
Inherent Modifiers:
Altered Trait -> Damage Resistance 12 (Area Effect [+50%], Directional (Front only) [-20%], Force Field [+20%], Gadget/Breakable DR 2 [-20%], Gadget/Size -7 [-5%], Gadget/Can be stolen, quick contest [-15%], Limited Defense (kinetic attacks) [-20%], Requires Concentrate [-15%], Semi-Ablative [-20%], Requires SK:Path of Energy Role [-10%]. Total [30 energy]
Duration -> 1 day (7 energy)
Greater Effects: 1 (x3 energy)
Total = (5+30+7)*3= 126 energy, plus a re-up of 7 every morning (just before dawn, naturally)

While this spell is active, and the caster wears the associated bracelet, the caster may concentrate on the bracelet and with a successful path of magic skill role to activate, create in front of them a shield with a 2 yard radius, which protects from physical damage to the tune of 12 DR, for as long as she continues to take concentrate maneuvers.

This seems like a crock to me somehow. (Please do not take offense at the following statement!) And it's ... clunky.

I'd build it with PK's system personally (and I intensely dislike gadget equipment. That said I'd like to offer a alternate: check out Pyramid #3/46: Weird Science and the article Metatronic Generators (p. 16). That system could easily be used to create magical devices and it would cost cash instead of points.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'd require lesser control magic in order to do it.

More than fair. But I've used it for a while and I've had no issues. YMMV

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I've seen no rules to support it either way. It was however my game and I didn't feel it made a huge impact since the traits were bundled and themed.

This seems like a crock to me somehow. (Please do not take offense at the following statement!) And it's ... clunky.

I'd build it with PK's system personally (and I intensely dislike gadget equipment. That said I'd like to offer a alternate: check out Pyramid #3/46: Weird Science and the article Metatronic Generators (p. 16). That system could easily be used to create magical devices and it would cost cash instead of points.

I'm not offended, but I am curious: "seems like a crock" and "Clunky" aren't descriptive of particular concerns.

"Build it with PK's system" = "Buy it with cp" in this instance (until the book comes out). That's only tangentially an RPM solution.

Was it not you who suggested the gadget limitations on an altered trait ritual would be a good way to make a shield bracelet, in this very thread?

Edit: next time I have a few $$ I'll check out that pyramid.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

I'm not offended, but I am curious: "seems like a crock" and "Clunky" aren't descriptive of particular concerns.

"Build it with PK's system" = "Buy it with cp" in this instance (until the book comes out). That's only tangentially an RPM solution.

Was it not you who suggested the gadget limitations on an altered trait ritual would be a good way to make a shield bracelet, in this very thread?

Edit: next time I have a few $$ I'll check out that pyramid.

It seems to me that you're trying to tack on limitations that you're effectively getting twice (via your charm and the spell). Clunky because ...well if just feels clunky. Sorry I can't explain it any better.

I did suggest gadget limitations but not via the ritual. Just buy it with CP and be done with it. :-)

Alternatively I suppose you could build it like a gadget but instead of paying CP figure out how many CP it costs and then reverse that and figure using the Trading Points For Money rules (p. B26).

[Engurrand]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

It seems to me that you're trying to tack on limitations that you're effectively getting twice (via your charm and the spell). Clunky because ...well if just feels clunky. Sorry I can't explain it any better.

I did suggest gadget limitations but not via the ritual. Just buy it with CP and be done with it. :-)

Alternatively I suppose you could build it like a gadget but instead of paying CP figure out how many CP it costs and then reverse that and figure using the Trading Points For Money rules (p. B26).

It's not a charm. It's a spell that must be active, taking up an active effect slot.

But fair enough. Using gadget limitations on altered traits could be seen as double dipping with the charm rules, especially if you build spells as charms that also have gadget limitations. I don't see it that way. A charm is an object which serves as an anchor for a contingent activation parameter for a ritual effect. Using Gadget Limitations on an altered trait lets a ritual cost less energy which also requires a specifically prepared physical thing in order to continue functioning. If anything, it's overlapping with the "traditional trappings" modifier.

This sort of wishy-washy GM dependent ruling definitely is a weakness. If you were my GM, and I were indulging in this kind of point-by-point, I'd be wasting everybody's time. That's why I asked enumerated questions in the OP.

Your alternative options are all reasonable. Buy it with CP or with dollars and you've got it. But that's not the point of this thread, (specifically, question 4).

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Engurrand

It's not a charm. It's a spell that must be active, taking up an active effect slot.

But fair enough. Using gadget limitations on altered traits could be seen as double dipping with the charm rules, especially if you build spells as charms that also have gadget limitations. I don't see it that way. A charm is an object which serves as an anchor for a contingent activation parameter for a ritual effect. Using Gadget Limitations on an altered trait lets a ritual cost less energy which also requires a specifically prepared physical thing in order to continue functioning. If anything, it's overlapping with the "traditional trappings" modifier.

This sort of wishy-washy GM dependent ruling definitely is a weakness. If you were my GM, and I were indulging in this kind of point-by-point, I'd be wasting everybody's time. That's why I asked enumerated questions in the OP.

Your alternative options are all reasonable. Buy it with CP or with dollars and you've got it. But that's not the point of this thread, (specifically, question 4).

Again. Fair enough. If I were the GM I wouldn't let you do that. Keep in mind that RPM is a very rule zero sort of system...