Changes to Combat Reflexes [Basic]

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Strangely enough, completely mundane (if extremely high valued and not terribly realistic) characters can have Dodge 16. It just costs around 355 CP (DX 20, HT 20, Basic Speed 12.00, and Combat Reflexes). At that point, it is worth getting Dodge 16 just to get the ancillary benefits from DX 20, HT 20, Basic Speed 12.00, and Combat Reflexes.

I do not consider superhuman characters to be completely mundane.

[Black Leviathan]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The problem is that I do not think that it is cinematic. I have known plenty of people in law enforcement and the military that possessed such an ability without PTSD. They do not hesitate, regardless of the situation, and they are nearly fearless because they lack hesitation.

I appreciate that these people are your friends and you don't define them as suffering from PTSD, but when your mind is ready to slip into a fight or flight situation, when you don't have any analysis of your situation but go straight into action, those are the characteristics of PTSD. It's entirely possible they didn't come to that state through trauma, they may be naturally wired to trip that switch instantly, but the realism of "Combat reflexes" isn't some gift for action, it's a struggle to reach the person-at-rest state that most people assume effortlessly.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think that that one in particular is more Danger Sense.

I think all of Stromcrow's examples are cinematically over the top and beyond Basic Combat Reflexes' settings.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I think all of Stromcrow's examples are cinematically over the top and beyond Basic Combat Reflexes' settings.

Sure, and that's largely true of Danger Sense too. But there's an independent question of "Exactly which cinematic advantage is this thing you described?"

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The problem is that I do not think that it is cinematic. I have known plenty of people in law enforcement and the military that possessed such an ability without PTSD. They do not hesitate, regardless of the situation, and they are nearly fearless because they lack hesitation.

Not hesitating when you know what to do is a perfectly normal trained response. Not hesitating when you don't know what to do can be a survival response in combat but in ordinary life is pathological (this is partially an issue with how turns work; the player has much more time to evaluate than the character, and thus PCs spend a lot less time being unsure what to do than real people).

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I do not consider superhuman characters to be completely mundane.

That is not technically a superhuman character by RAW (no Attribute exceeds the human maximum of 20, no Secondary Characteristic exceeds its associated maximum, and there are no exotic or supernatural traits). At worst, it is a cinematic character.

[RyanW]

I make Combat Reflexes a 5 point advantage that allows (but doesn't include) one level of any or all Enhanced Defenses.

There are enough ways to boost defenses (AOD, retreat, defensive grip, etc.) that I don't personally feel that giving a cheap +1 is necessary.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think that that one in particular is more Danger Sense.

My apologies: I didn't mean to depict it as anticipating the attack beforehand, but rather detecting the start of the attack before anyone else has any clue what's going on. Having Brock and Hunk lead them means they won't freeze and they have an excellent chance of not being mentally stunned. At the first BANG! the two will probably cancel out the surprise of the ambush.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I think all of Stromcrow's examples are cinematically over the top and beyond Basic Combat Reflexes' settings.

I made them obviously cinematic to make the point, but I don't see why they aren't accurate depictions of Combat Reflexes. "You have extraordinary reactions," not just "You react quickly."

Brock heard the twig, woke up, could not freeze in surprise, beat the minion in an initiative roll because he had bonuses, made a Fast Draw roll with a bonus and fired his weapon all in one second. This is perfectly plausible with Combat Reflexes, but not particularly plausible in real life. Possible, yes, but not very likely. His companions, without Combat Reflexes, would automatically Do Nothing for 1d seconds, and then must make IQ rolls to recover, and then they're a little less likely to make Fast Draw rolls.

Hunk makes his Dodge roll to avoid that bolt. He Dodges better than someone similar without Combat Reflexes; depicting the Dodge as coolly tilting his head is mere fluff. But if we suppose someone with totally average scores of DX 10, HT 10, Speed 5, and Dodge 8, with Combat Reflexes it becomes Dodge 9, an increased chance to succeed of 11.6%. That's significant, and a fair reason to give Hunk a bit of cinematic swagger. His reflexes are "extraordinary."

You don't have to give your characters silly names the way I have, but the basic functioning of Combat Reflexes is pretty cinematic. It's the stuff of action movies.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

That is not technically a superhuman character by RAW (no Attribute exceeds the human maximum of 20, no Secondary Characteristic exceeds its associated maximum, and there are no exotic or supernatural traits). At worst, it is a cinematic character.

The only world in which a DX 20, HT 20 +1 SPD character isn't superhuman is a world that plays host to Captain America and Spider-Man...which is what that "human" maximum was set for. It doesn't make them mundane. It makes them Man Plus.

[AlexanderHowl]

The build is mundane because it does not exceed the default attribute and secondary characteristic maximums of GURPS and because it does not have any cinematic, exotic, or supernatural traits by the default rules of GURPS. Now, realistic settings might consider DX and HT 15+ as cinematic, but that is not the default assumption of GURPS, and they would not necessarily be cinematic in certain realistic settings (TL12 genetic engineering can give templates an average of DX+4 and HT+5, so what is considered cinematic at that point?). It is, however, not superhuman by the default asuumptions of GURPS.