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Old 05-25-2020, 09:39 PM   #11
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

An individual with Explosives/TL5 that attempts to use nitro would suffer a -7 to skill (-5 for the TL+1 penalty and -2 for lack of familiarity), which could be quite deadly. This is historically accurate, as a number of people blew themselves up with nitro soon after it was commercially available.
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:15 AM   #12
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Tech level is the broad stroke brush you use for when you don't have or don't wish to use real dates for real technology.
This is very true.



Late TL 5 is also prone to complicated dating situations. I usually consider it to be its own TL, with early repeating firearms, steam railroads, and the occasional telegraph.
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Old 05-26-2020, 10:43 AM   #13
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
An individual with Explosives/TL5 that attempts to use nitro would suffer a -7 to skill (-5 for the TL+1 penalty and -2 for lack of familiarity), which could be quite deadly. This is historically accurate, as a number of people blew themselves up with nitro soon after it was commercially available.
I would not apply that extra -2 penalty. By definition, I am not familiar with any TL9 technology; it hasn't been invented or isn't on the market at this time. So all TL9 tech ought to have a penalty of -2 for TL8 people like me. But the stated penalty for one tech level ahead is -5, not -7. I think that the -5 subsumes the -2 for unfamiliarity; it's not a separate added penalty.

For comparison, I don't know how to handle a sailboat, and if I had to try I'd be rolling against IQ-5 (since I'm sure my IQ is higher than my DX!). But I wouldn't also have an added -2 penalty for being unfamliiar with, say, a sloop as opposed to a Bermuda rig. I'm not familiar with any of them; that's part of the definition of not having the skill.The -5 for unskilled takes the place of the -2 for unfamliar; you don't have both penalties.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:17 PM   #14
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

Basic, p. 169 says that TL and familiarity penalties apply at the same time. Familiarity penalties can be removed with just eight hours of practice. TL penalties require the appropriate TL and a new skill to remove.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

For late TL5 I'd make familiarity with Nitro a perk, similar to the "Early Adopter" perk for firearms. It was used for blasting, and a small number of people would know how to use it prior to TL6.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:31 PM   #16
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I would not apply that extra -2 penalty. By definition, I am not familiar with any TL9 technology; it hasn't been invented or isn't on the market at this time. So all TL9 tech ought to have a penalty of -2 for TL8 people like me. But the stated penalty for one tech level ahead is -5, not -7. I think that the -5 subsumes the -2 for unfamiliarity; it's not a separate added penalty.

For comparison, I don't know how to handle a sailboat, and if I had to try I'd be rolling against IQ-5 (since I'm sure my IQ is higher than my DX!). But I wouldn't also have an added -2 penalty for being unfamliiar with, say, a sloop as opposed to a Bermuda rig. I'm not familiar with any of them; that's part of the definition of not having the skill.The -5 for unskilled takes the place of the -2 for unfamliar; you don't have both penalties.
You aren't familiar now, but what about after you have worked with it for some hours. It makes sense that you could get better with it after getting such familiarity.

I don't know how to handle a sailboat either, but I imagine that trying to sail with one specific type would not be as hard as having to switch to a new type of sail boat every hour right after I get some familiarity with the previous type.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

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Originally Posted by Kfireblade View Post
Huh, seems like there are some other things marked TL 5 that came about pretty late that might also be better considered TL 6 then. Like the Marine Chronometer or the Mauser IG71.
No, there is no exact lines on TL.

As example we still produce and use many low TL items that a person from far past would find familiar. Even if there is a "new model" of one of them, it is still usually a low TL item.

The Mauser model 1871 is TL5 because it uses black powder in a single shot bolt action rifle. The 1884 version had a tubular magazine, but that is still a common late TL5 technology.
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Old 05-26-2020, 05:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Basic, p. 169 says that TL and familiarity penalties apply at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
You aren't familiar now,
He's saying that familiarity penalty shouldn't apply if you're not familiar with any of the equipment.
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Old 05-26-2020, 06:09 PM   #19
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I would not apply that extra -2 penalty. By definition, I am not familiar with any TL9 technology; it hasn't been invented or isn't on the market at this time. So all TL9 tech ought to have a penalty of -2 for TL8 people like me. But the stated penalty for one tech level ahead is -5, not -7. I think that the -5 subsumes the -2 for unfamiliarity; it's not a separate added penalty.

For comparison, I don't know how to handle a sailboat, and if I had to try I'd be rolling against IQ-5 (since I'm sure my IQ is higher than my DX!). But I wouldn't also have an added -2 penalty for being unfamliiar with, say, a sloop as opposed to a Bermuda rig. I'm not familiar with any of them; that's part of the definition of not having the skill.The -5 for unskilled takes the place of the -2 for unfamliar; you don't have both penalties.
The unfamiliarity penalty vanishes after a day of training or experimentation. (Training would be by far the preferable option with any kind of explosives). The TL penalty never goes away unless you buy it off with points. (But fortunately only a single point since it's a perk to have cutting edge tech knowledge in a single area).
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:08 AM   #20
Andreas
 
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Default Re: Nitroglycerin invention date and TL

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Originally Posted by Žorkell View Post
He's saying that familiarity penalty shouldn't apply if you're not familiar with any of the equipment.
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. You would get worse at using other types of equipment once you get familiar with one of them, because from then on familiarity penalties apply?
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