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Old 05-03-2015, 04:47 PM   #11
evileeyore
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

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... third world hellholes like ... Montréal.
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Old 05-03-2015, 05:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

I guess we also have to assume things like thermodynamics and oxygen processing...
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Old 05-03-2015, 05:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

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I guess we also have to assume things like thermodynamics and oxygen processing...
*nod* Especially if - like on the examples I used - there are no visible water-masses. EU sources in the SWU have entire sections of Coruscant (such as the Works) dedicated to maintaining the artificial ecology: air scrubbers, waste recycling, etc. From space, all of those worlds I listed have large circles visible from space (at least in the movie version, for Geidi Prime; not sure about the miniseries) that appear to glow as though they were volcanic.
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Old 05-03-2015, 05:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

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*nod* Especially if - like on the examples I used - there are no visible water-masses. EU sources in the SWU have entire sections of Coruscant (such as the Works) dedicated to maintaining the artificial ecology: air scrubbers, waste recycling, etc. From space, all of those worlds I listed have large circles visible from space (at least in the movie version, for Geidi Prime; not sure about the miniseries) that appear to glow as though they were volcanic.
Splendid Wisdom, in Kingsbury's last novel, has had the planet's oceans entirely appropriated by human engineers and brought into the planetary plumbing.
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

There is around 60% land and 40% water, but I plan to have complex artifical river and lake systems connecting all around the city. Like these ravnica's islands

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...ee-d813eth.jpg

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/...nd_9944242.jpg
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

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That is LOTS of people. If the current world population lived at Hong Kong densities it would all fit in Texas easily. Asimov had 45 billion on Trantor which gives a density like England. Lots of city but hardly no open land. Given how deep/tall he made the levels you would have to wander miles to find another person. So maybe less land area then Earth and the oceans are the food source?
A Space Opera world could have 99.9% of the city underground. You could have most of the food grown in subterranian hydroponics set-ups and such, plus extensive aquaculture. Most of the planetary surface would be parks of differing types. If the Ecumenopolis is class-ridden, perhaps the poor are forbiden to walk the surface much like this film. A more egaliterian society might work out like a mixture of this film added to this film.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

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If you assume the same radius as Earth, you have a surface area of ~200,000,000 square miles. That sets a minimum of 5,000 per square mile. That's in the neighborhood of third world hellholes like Helsinki, Honolulu, and Montréal. Of course that's a minimum; if some of the planet is ocean, glaciers, mountains, and the like you'll multiply by a small number.
Given Star Wars has loads of Supertech, I think we can assume more Honolulus than Spitzbergens or Timbuktus. Mild semi-tropical climates would be prefered. The population could live mixed in with Vertical Agriculture towers and aquacultural stations at sea. Supertech would keep the ecology from collapse, unless of course the author gets preachy. Then they are doomed.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

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If you assume the same radius as Earth, you have a surface area of ~200,000,000 square miles. That sets a minimum of 5,000 per square mile. That's in the neighborhood of third world hellholes like Helsinki, Honolulu, and Montréal. Of course that's a minimum; if some of the planet is ocean, glaciers, mountains, and the like you'll multiply by a small number.
I'd tend to assume that ecumenopolis still has oceans. It kind of needs them just for heat irradiation. Also unlike Trantor, Coruscant would have had a droid population that was probably of comparable size to the officially counted organics.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

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I'd tend to assume that ecumenopolis still has oceans. It kind of needs them just for heat irradiation. Also unlike Trantor, Coruscant would have had a droid population that was probably of comparable size to the officially counted organics.
Thus incresing the need to shed heat. Clearly no problem with an excess of ice caps.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: What TLs you need to have and sustain a ecumenopolis

Urban densities are generally given as population inside some political boundary. For purposes of this discussion, you really need to include the support systems for the city, which is a lot harder to look up. Farms, water supply, waste disposal, and so on, are often outside the city boundaries, but ought to be figured in. An entire planet covered in the density of Montreal wouldn't be like today's Montreal.

A planet-wide city doesn't preclude farms; you just put the farms on the roof. Still, about 40% of Earth's land area is currently devoted to agriculture. So you could get ten times the production without improving the density of agriculture at all. Trantor's 45 billion could be fed without any sort of internal / underground hydroponics setup or fleets of ships from granary planets.

You will need something else to get to 1 trillion -- and you'll also need an energy source, as covering the entire planet's surface with solar-absorbing plants isn't enough food. Luckily, plants are only around 3% efficient, so you could better that with your food production tech, perhaps even solar powered, or just something else like fusion.
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