03-18-2019, 10:16 AM | #1 | |||
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
I am unable to determine the relative power of a learned prayer. The guidelines seem to contradict the math.
On page 9, at the bottom of the "New Learned Prayers" box, it shows a table of Point Costs, Learned Prerequisite and a Minimum Reaction: Quote:
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"Burning Touch"From the table on page 9, this lies at the bottom of the "Neutral" category, and has a prerequisite of Divine Favor 4. But Page 5 says that a "Neutral" level miracle can only give "a minor blessing, in the form of a realistic coincidence, a bonus to a roll, or a small amount of protection". A 6D6 Burning attack seems way outside this boundary. Do I need to make a subjective call on the prayer to say that 6D6 is just too much for the point cost [15], and add more enhancements? Something like: "Holy Touch of Damnation"Which puts this prayer in the middle of the "Good" reaction range. Even still, this seems well over the guidelines for Good "This is a more subtle miracle – the enemies’ guns jam, you gain knowledge of where your foes are and what they plan, you can hold off a horde of evil spirits, etc. " This is my dilemma. I can't figure out how to build a spell and reconcile it with the guidelines on page 5. |
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03-18-2019, 11:04 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
It depends totally on the feel you want to give your campaigns.
I would personally not allow a 6d6 base damage for effectively 3 points unless it was a modern/scifi campaign where you can buy such as normal weapons easily. The no die roll required is actually a thing that gives it that nice "divine power" feel. So I would personally think that for my campaigns the second power is much better and more divine power feeling than the first. When it comes to any powers built, basically in the end the GM has to think "does it make sense" in terms of the power level, point cost and feel. |
03-18-2019, 11:22 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
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Thaumatology - Sorcery and Divine Powers both use approximately the same rules for building new spells/prayers, except that Thaumatology - Sorcery enforces a skill roll and a Fatigue Cost and Divine Powers has this subjective guideline. And so for Sorcery spells, I can basically assume that the GURPS Powers have been playtested over enough time that they aren't totally out of balance with the rest of the system, and the player's spells will "fit right in". But with Divine Powers, it all comes down to "I said so"? |
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03-18-2019, 12:04 PM | #4 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
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03-18-2019, 12:15 PM | #5 |
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Ok, so are there any better guidelines? Specifically, the Divine Powers book rarely mentions any kind of direct damage prayer, and when it does, they are are HUGE massive miracles.
Are there no small cost/small damage prayers? And if so, what guidelines could I use to determine which fits where? |
03-18-2019, 01:43 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
If you want to follow the guidelines then don't build low powered super-flashy spells like that. Simple. But they are just guidelines. I'd chuck 'em in a Dungeon Fantasy setting.
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03-18-2019, 02:15 PM | #7 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
In this particular instance, one could add Cosmic:Irresistable Attack +300% ("My god's wrath sneers at your puny armor!") to bring the cost up to 135 and well into Miraculous territory.
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I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig. Last edited by ravenfish; 03-18-2019 at 02:30 PM. |
03-18-2019, 02:43 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
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The general miracle table is calibrated for a setting where overt supernatural phenomena are at least a bit of a big deal. If it's setting-appropriate for somebody on moderately good terms with a god to burn people's faces off with a touch, that table is probably not right and should be adjusted. If that isn't setting-appropriate, then your Burning Touch power doesn't fit in and should be removed or replaced with something more befitting 'god is done with fudging the dice and has decided to unleash some wrath'.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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03-18-2019, 02:56 PM | #9 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
Gurps doesn't give you permission to buy a trait. It tells you how much it costs if you do. In order to buy something, you need both the points and the narrative explanation.
This is especially true in powers, where all sorts of abilities can be made, but won't fit every power. You can build a mind control ability with the Pyromancer power modifier. That doesn't mean that Pyromancers can use mind control, it just tells you how much that ability would cost the Pyromancer if he bought it. Both sorcery and divine favor are extensions of the powers system, not separate systems. Divine Favor is based on the the Patron advantage, with some expansive and powerful modifiers, and prayers an adaptation and expansion of the stunts (abilities from a default) and alternate ability rules. The rules in stunts and alternate abilities don't talk much about whether an ability is appropriate to the power or not, they just give mechanics once you a cost for the ability. I will say that giving a flaming attack at touch range is a little odd for a divine power, unless you're the cleric of a flame god or something. I'd expect divine fire to either be more impressive, more subtle, or more convenient. If you're calling down divine fire on your foes, call it down with area attack at range. If anyone you touch is burned, that's an aura. If you're just trying to start a fire in the frozen north, increase the flammability of this particular fire, or use serendipity to discover some dry wood. Remember that the GM role-played diety chooses the effects, not the player, and the diety will quite possibly have different priorities. In summary: You need to afford the ability, and you need narrative permission for it. The costs are about being able to afford the ability, while the description of the type of prayer is about the narrative permission.
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Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one! Last edited by ericthered; 03-18-2019 at 03:02 PM. |
03-18-2019, 03:01 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Powers - Divine Favor: How to reconcile the guidelines with the math
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So it seems that 6d6 (with a few limitations) is too high for a 15 point prayer. What about 4d6? Or 2d6? This is my point. The Divine Powers guidelines say that anything with a Full Cost (before the 1/5 for alternate advantage) of 25 pts or less can only give you "a minor blessing, in the form of a realistic coincidence, a bonus to a roll, or a small amount of protection". With 25 Pts, you could normally buy: 5d6 Burn Attack a 50% Ally, summonable, always available Combat Reflexes (+1 to all active Defenses, Fast Draw, etc.) DR 5 Dark Vision An Extra Attack An Extra Life Gunslinger etc. And yet, if you tried to make these Learned Prayers in Divine Favor, I don't think any of them fit into the guideline of "a minor blessing, in the form of a realistic coincidence, a bonus to a roll, or a small amount of protection". So I am lost. I don't see how I am to characterize a 55 point Learned Prayer (which qualifies as "Good") as a "subtle miracle – the enemies’ guns jam, you gain knowledge of where your foes are and what they plan, you can hold off a horde of evil spirits, etc." Heck, for 55 points, you better be able to do more than that!! So I, as the GM, have to arbitrate every Learned Prayer to try to determine which bucket it fits in? I have no problem doing the work, what I have a problem with is the guidelines themselves. They gave a single line of context for prayers that can differ in cost by as much as 25 points, and they make little to no mention of direct damage prayers. Last edited by Nose66; 03-18-2019 at 03:05 PM. |
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