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Old 03-14-2019, 05:08 PM   #101
Icelander
 
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Default Re: Portable Intrinsic Wealth in Ultra Tech

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Not really. The value of money, apocalypse or no apocalypse, is mostly based on what the person you're dealing with expects to be able get for it in turn. Respect for the issuing party is largely irrelevant, except insofar as 'respect' equates to belief that they'll keep their currency valuable in your market.
Yeah, and if the issuing polity doesn't exist any more, the value of their currency can quickly equal the Confederate dollar.

Same with any stocks, bonds or other assets located on a world where the ruling class are either dead or refugees. It's not like the property rights of French or Russian aristocrats were respected after their respective Revolutions. Anyone who bought assets from them and expected the new regime to honour their rights would have gotten a sharp lesson in how little value legal title has when those in power no longer recognise it.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:29 PM   #102
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Yeah, and if the issuing polity doesn't exist any more, the value of their currency can quickly equal the Confederate dollar.
It can, but it doesn't necessarily if the currency has a strong foreign circulation that isn't dependent on the issuing government or their domestic economy.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:30 PM   #103
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Yeah, and if the issuing polity doesn't exist any more, the value of their currency can quickly equal the Confederate dollar.

Same with any stocks, bonds or other assets located on a world where the ruling class are either dead or refugees. It's not like the property rights of French or Russian aristocrats were respected after their respective Revolutions. Anyone who bought assets from them and expected the new regime to honour their rights would have gotten a sharp lesson in how little value legal title has when those in power no longer recognise it.
You can probably get something for them but nothing near pennies o the dollar. More like a couple hundred for a million dollar estate. Maybe it will be worth something eventually, if not you helped someone out a bit. I think there are people trying to get back property lost during the take over in eastern Europe currently.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:42 PM   #104
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It can, but it doesn't necessarily if the currency has a strong foreign circulation that isn't dependent on the issuing government or their domestic economy.
Can you give me examples of fiat currencies that outlived the polity that issued them even if the polity that replaced it did not honour it?
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:00 PM   #105
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Can you give me examples of fiat currencies that outlived the polity that issued them even if the polity that replaced it did not honour it?
The Maria Theresa Thaler was widely accepted in the Mediterranean and Africa long after the downfall of Austria-Hungary in locales that had never been ruled by said state.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:04 PM   #106
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Not really. The value of money, apocalypse or no apocalypse, is mostly based on what the person you're dealing with expects to be able get for it in turn. Respect for the issuing party is largely irrelevant, except insofar as 'respect' equates to belief that they'll keep their currency valuable in your market.
Which from the market point of view is the definition. If the issuing party doesn't pump it's currency until the GNP can't hold it up, accepts it as tax payment, has a large commercial sphere, defends it's citizens, and otherwise ensures that it's currency is well known, and trusted, it is "respected."

That said there is a correlation between a state's political prestige and that of it's money. It is not a direct one. Sparta's never was respected unless there happened to be a Spartan nearby. And there were oddities; Roman coins got boosted by the skill of their minters. But in general Roman coins are going to be respected and those of hill-chief-with-two-goats are not other things being equal.

Money is a circular definition. It is money if the users say it is money. Confederate money is an antique. Maria Theresa Thalers really were money because they were used and worth more then their bullion.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:15 PM   #107
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The Maria Theresa Thaler was widely accepted in the Mediterranean and Africa long after the downfall of Austria-Hungary in locales that had never been ruled by said state.
At a value higher than the silver content?
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:16 PM   #108
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At a value higher than the silver content?
Yes. They were valued as Thalers not just as silver. No one considered them equiv to hack metal.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:09 PM   #109
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But, why would anyone bother with the currency of a polity that is doing a Zimbabwe? Everyone would offload the currency ASAP because anything that destroys an interstellar polity probably is not leaving much behind. You might have a planet that would be habitable again within a few centuries, but no one will honor the debts.

Anyway, this assumes that interstellar economies function like historical or contemporary economies, and I really doubt that. First off, there is so much gold available that it becomes easy to use it for currency, so an interstellar economy may use physical gold for a medium of exchange ($1 per gram would be an adequate value). Second off, what can you trade that is cheaper than what I can produce at home when you add the cost of interstellar travel (what comparative advantages exist between two distant politics at TL10)?
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:18 PM   #110
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Anyway, this assumes that interstellar economies function like historical or contemporary economies, and I really doubt that. First off, there is so much gold available that it becomes easy to use it for currency, so an interstellar economy may use physical gold for a medium of exchange ($1 per gram would be an adequate value).
Why would anybody, though? Gold is fundamentally lousy currency and having more of it wouldn't make it less so. And plentiful gold is a rather terrible medium of exchange for an economy with a high cost on moving mass from place to place.
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