Social Stigma (Criminal Record), Enemy and Secret

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Kromm

That'll be the one with the disadvantage that says:[INDENT][I]To be worth points, this must be obvious from your physical appearance, dress, manner, or speech; or easily learned by anyone who cares to check up on you; or the result of public denouncement that ensures that everyone you meet knows that you, personally, belong to the disdained group.

"He's an ex-con" is something that's easily learned in modern life by anyone who knows your name and cares to look it up. In less networked cultures it's probably better represented by a bad reputation than a social stigma. But once again is something that is going to be eclipsed by "He's a criminal RIGHT NOW".

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

"He's an ex-con" is something that's easily learned in modern life by anyone who knows your name and cares to look it up. In less networked cultures it's probably better represented by a bad reputation than a social stigma. But once again is something that is going to be eclipsed by "He's a criminal RIGHT NOW".

Yes, but Enemy (Law Enforcement) doesn't give any such effects. If you want to represent someone who is the subject of a manhunt and who people outside of law enforcement react to as a criminal, you need more than one trait.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Yes, but Enemy (Law Enforcement) doesn't give any such effects. If you want to represent someone who is the subject of a manhunt and who people outside of law enforcement react to as a criminal, you need more than one trait.

The problems that the ex-con social stigma lead to are suspicion from authorities, suspicion from your neighbours, difficulty getting a job. None of these things are relevant to a person being actively pursued by the authorities because when you are being actively pursued by the authorities you can't get a job and you don't have neighbours without concealing your identity, which means you have Secret, not social stigma. And it's a Secret that will blown the moment Law Enforcement appears on the scene so you probably don't even get points for it.

[Celjabba]

To take 3 historical exemples:

In 1943-1944 in occuped France,
-Marcel Petiot (serial killer)
-Jean Moulin (resistant)
-Tristan Bernard (very popular playwright)

All three were wanted and in Gurps term had enemy: Law Enforcement Agency (Gestapo).

Petiot had Social Stigma: criminal record
Moulin had rank and a high reaction bonus - but only within the resistance and associated.
Bernard had a positive Reaction bonus (small, but nearly everyone) ("You don't arrest someone who is in the dictionary")

Assuming a random person recognise them in the street :

-Petiot would likely incit a poor reaction / get reported to the autorities. (it happened)

-Moulin is mostly unknow, and would likely get no special reaction unless also recognised as a resistant.

-Tristan Bernard would likely get a good reaction. (and was in fact freed after many peoples spoke on his behalf.)

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The problems that the ex-con social stigma lead to are suspicion from authorities, suspicion from your neighbours, difficulty getting a job. None of these things are relevant to a person being actively pursued by the authorities because when you are being actively pursued by the authorities you can't get a job and you don't have neighbours without concealing your identity, which means you have Secret, not social stigma. And it's a Secret that will blown the moment Law Enforcement appears on the scene so you probably don't even get points for it.

As Kromm explained, the extra -1 to Reaction from most people, -2 from honest types and law enforcement, are quite enough of a drawback to justify the cost, even if you are on the lam.

For the character with Enemy (Law Enforcement) and no Social Stigma or negative Reputation, the average citizen on the street either doesn't know that the authorities are pursuing him, or doesn't consider it a point against him. Remember, GURPS is Generic and Universal. Not every situation where the authorities are after someone will be equivalent to a modern manhunt with media vilification of the subject and, indeed, the subject of such treatment (if successful) should have Disadvantages that give Reaction penalties as well as having Enemy.

Lack of Social Stigma (Criminal Record) means that people will be far more ready to believe the character is innocent and agree to help him escape or hide. That's extremely important for a fugitive.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

"He's an ex-con" is something that's easily learned in modern life by anyone who knows your name and cares to look it up. In less networked cultures it's probably better represented by a bad reputation than a social stigma. But once again is something that is going to be eclipsed by "He's a criminal RIGHT NOW".

In less networked cultures it's not at all uncommon to get a brand or other specific type of bodily mutilation that'll tell everyone who sees it that you're a convict.

[jason taylor]

Also it depends a lot on what the crime is. doesn't it? A mobster has reputation (feared) and among some circles Social Regard. A bar brawler is looked on as someone who just didn't get out fast enough when the cops arrived. A child abuser is looked on as a low form of life, indeed. And so on.


Even in law-abiding countries if you ask them in detail about what you think of some particular crime you will get a different answer then if they are referred to by the generic "criminal".