The foof gun, combat value, using teleport, etc.

[skyhawk]

Ok, so I've read the forums, and even see that this is an item disliked even by the moderators (waves hello to munchkin man :)

I've been playing munchkin legends (blended with all the christmas packs, monster enhancers, dragons packs, grimm's, and some promos -with princesses and rumplestilskin removed as too few in such a sized deck) with these friends weekly for months. And while I've played star munchkin before they have not.

As a change I pulled out my star munchkin cards, and we tried that.

This card stopped the game cold for over 2 hours. Note at the table we had programmer logisticians, english majors, etc.

The problem came between context, the "new" editions (how level is now different than "combat vaue") and what does it mean to "use" an item in combat, vs. an item being equipped, plus the nifty paragraph in the combat section of the rules regarding winning not requiring the killing of monsters (wizard, for example).

interpretation a.) stated that the card was written poorly, that this is an if-then clause and so the battle must be previously "won" before the teleport may work, and that that is the only way to gain the +6, due to applying the parenthetical to the application of the +6 as well as the card's special use of teleportation.

the logic arguement against "interpretation a" is that if you've already "won" the battle, then you already have the treasure, so why would you ever use this card to not gain the levels?

interpretation b.) is that, due to how the rules are written, one does not "use" an equipped item in combat, rather that the combat bonuses are "static". The rules treat this as a passive equation of static values ("Compare...") which may be further adjusted by "using" an ability (race/class/naughty/etc), or "using" an item, which may be an equipped item or a single use item. And further that the second paragraph under combat makes this clear by stating that some cards may allow for a "win" without defeating the monsters.

So in this case, if the item is equipped, the +6 is always added to the combat value, and that the special use (which the munchkin can choose whether to use) can be used to "win" even if the combat value does not exceed the combat value of the monsters just like other such cards, or the wizard's ability.

The concern about this is that this is not called a "single-use-item", so the card is not discarded when used, and so, if the munchkiin didn't care about level, this is an automatic "get the treasure every time-sell your way to 9th level" item

I personally think that this, like kneepads of allure and other such cards, needed a clarification re-write, especially in light of the rule changes.

I think both interpretations either force the card to either break the rules as intended, or break the rules as written, or both. and these are some fairly fundamental rules (how combat value works, what's a "win", what does it mean to "use" an item) that a clarification would seem to be in order.

Now my friends desperately would like an authority figure to pick a winner to the arguement, but I don't think even that helps in light of the problem of the card, since it's still anybody's interpretation.

I'm not going to ask about the "winning" part of this, as I believe (and please correct me if I am incorrect), but the paragraph under combat concerning “winning” is present to definitively clarify all such cards, and so would appear to make this part of this moot as an RTFM issue. : )

So besides that, here area couple of ways the card could be re-done/interpreted:

a.) treat the item as an equippable item in which the +6 and the teleport only come into play if the player so chooses, but if the +6 is used AND if the monsters are defeated using that +6, then the teleport effect "must" be applied as well. And the card remains equipped.

b.) treat the item as a one shot item which adds +6 to the munchkin side, and which does the teleport, but only if the munchkin wishes.

c.) treat the item as an equippable item, with the static +6, and the card may be used (not discarded) if the player wishes to enact the special effect (teleport). And the card remains equipped.

d.) (b and c) treat the item as an equippable item, with the static +6, and the card may be used (and therefore discarded) if the player wishes to enact the special effect (teleport).

After going through all of this, as you may guess, at this point I prefer interpretation d. it would seem to align best with the current rules, and other equipped cards which have special abilities.

I also think that, regardless of which option is used, the gold piece value may need to also be re-assesed. At this point, considering it's power and potential usage, I'm leaning towards "no value", but YMMV.

I would greatly welcome your thoughts on all of this : )