07-07-2013, 11:35 AM | #51 | |||||||||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
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At any rate, Kromm has often said stuff that I interpret to mean that you actually do have those skills at default. Quote:
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07-07-2013, 12:16 PM | #52 | |
Ceci n'est pas une tag.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA (Portland Metro)
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
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IIRC, it was originally in Thaumatology or Magical Styles? Learn 8 spells at default +1, or 4 spells at default +2, or 2 spells at default +3 (or any combination). (And to those wondering about the perk: it's limitation is, you can't learn up from these bonuses-to-defaults. Put a full point into one of these spells/skills, and you get default +4, as per normal, but don't get back the fraction of a point that went into the perk...) It was then generalized to Dabbler, in Power-Ups 2, so it was available for ANY skills.
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I'm a collector, not a gamer. =) |
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07-07-2013, 12:23 PM | #53 |
Ceci n'est pas une tag.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA (Portland Metro)
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
A couple of things I am wondering: how extensively do players rely on "buying up from default"? I'd think that quite a lot of skills on character sheets would be that...
And "learning-by-doing," doesn't that require actual effort on the part of the character (and, in statting real-world individuals, people)? I know that my driving isn't improving, for instance, since even though I spend about 6 hours a week driving (which means, being "self-taught," I should be getting a point every 2-3 years), I'm not actually making an effort to get any better. I'm just driving.
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I'm a collector, not a gamer. =) |
07-07-2013, 12:28 PM | #54 |
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
Remember that in order to get even a default in a skill, you have to know something about it - so the fact that you know something about a skill doesn't mean you're not using it at default. Even if you've spent time studying the skill, you might not have a full point in it - and at 4e's resolution before Dabbler was introduced, that means no points.
Ditto for techniques. Just because you know how to kick someone, or apply an arm lock, or whatever, doesn't mean that you have extra points in Techniques; most likely it's just part of knowing the underlying skill (which, again, you might not even have a full point in). If you can get to the end of the sentence "I have 12 Techniques" without noticing a problem with the concept of having 12 narrow specializations, you're thinking about it all wrong. Of course, I say this, and yet I'm an advocate for giving (for instance) moderately experienced drivers a point in Driving vs. those people who assume nearly everyone is operating at default. In any case, you can't assume that you have a point in every skill you know. |
07-07-2013, 12:44 PM | #55 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
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Then, once you get there, it only makes sense to put points in one of the "slave" skills if it would only take an additional point or two to improve that skill by one level, AND if you only intend to buy up a couple of slave skills this way; otherwise it makes more sense to pump points into raising the master skill - same as with buying Techniques. I feel like the way defaults work needs revision, but I haven't hit on a simple and satisfying replacement mechanic. Quote:
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07-07-2013, 01:17 PM | #56 |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
Wizardly Dabbler is introduced in Thaumatology: Magical Styles, which was published after Power Ups 2: Perks. It was a magic-specific variant of Dabbler, rather than the other way around. PU2 is the first mention of the Dabbler perk that I can find.
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07-07-2013, 04:36 PM | #57 | ||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
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However, it's also not clear exactly what counts as "practice" for Maintaining Skills (unfortunately). I've been thinking that it might mean that if you don't get at least 200 hours of learning in six months you'd have to roll. So for your driving, you'd be rolling to maintain it twice a year and only getting at most 1 of those levels back (if your Driving drops back to default) every 2.6 years. Last edited by sir_pudding; 07-07-2013 at 05:26 PM. |
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07-07-2013, 07:48 PM | #58 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
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07-08-2013, 01:56 AM | #59 | ||||
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
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Yes, GURPS is mainly designed to create fictional heroes. Which is emphasized by the fact that the basic unit of the game is named an "adventure". Having said that, it is perfectly possible to create an ordinary character with GURPS 4 (ordinary people suddenly thrown in extraordinary events is very common in a lot of genres, including the most famous ones, and even the precise story from which the very first role palying came: The Lord of the Rings). And creating a detailed character is possible with a lot of depth. Especially with the fourth edition. There are a lot of little realistic advantages and disadvantages and each of them can even be customized with Enhancements and Limitations... Dabbler was just what was missing to me to make things even more precise. Thanks to this thread, I now got it. Many thanks to all of you! Not a lot... But certainly not just 0. She is MY cat. So she is extraordinary! ;-) Quote:
Defaults level don't do any difference between those characters. Thanks to the Dabbler perk, I can now do it without having to put a full point in the skill! Quote:
So I'm certainly not a professional in all these skills, and I may not even be a skilled amateur. But I'm still much better than most people, which means that I do not only have the same default level as anybody. I didn't learn all these skills just by watching the TV! Quote:
Furthermore most of our skills would be totally useless in a dangerous adventure. It would also be a pure waste of points in a role playing game... But most of us still have these ordinary skills rather than Lockpicking, Stealth and Pickpocket, which would nevertheless be much more useful. Last edited by Gollum; 07-08-2013 at 02:02 AM. |
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07-08-2013, 02:33 AM | #60 | ||||
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Skills, skills everywhere
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As I explained it in my post just above, there are two ways to create a character: optimization and realistic detail. If you think in optimization mode, of course, taking more than a couple of technique is a waste of points. It's a much better idea to improve the skill and to choose the couple of techniques for which your character is supposed to be very good... But, in reality, we all have more than a couple of favorite techniques, and more than a couple of techniques for which we are not as good... Fine-tuning a character to that point is possible! GURPS is amazing here. But it supposes to take a lot of techniques. Quote:
I don't consider myself as an exception. We all have a lot of skills in which we are better than Mr Everybody. This is especially obvious in this forum. Even if some are better than others in some subjects (and much better than I am), we all discuss about a lot of different things like science, history, combat, politics, computers, etc., with a lot of precision and detail... GURPS may be a game that requires to be cultivated. GURPS player or GM: competent character, 50 to 75 character points. Hint: extensively use the Dabbler perk. |
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