So how exactly do people fight with scythes?

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Brett

You say that they obviously aren't scythes. But the people who used them and contemporary accounts call them scythes. You may not have known it until now, but that sort of thing is a scythe. "Scythe" is the word for that thing.

scythe
  /saɪð/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahyth] Show IPA noun, verb, scythed, scyth⋅ing.
Use scythe in a Sentence
See web results for scythe
See images of scythe
–noun
1. an agricultural implement consisting of a long, curving blade fastened at an angle to a handle, for cutting grass, grain, etc., by hand.
–verb (used with object)
2. to cut or mow with a scythe.

No mention of "spear thingy used in battle." They may make those spear thingies out of scythes, and they may have even called them war scythes, but when the average person asks "How do you fight with a scythe," he's referring to the definition there, not asking how you can make a weapon out of a scythe.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

No mention of "spear thingy used in battle."

On the other hand, Wikipedia is better-informed.

They may make those spear thingies out of scythes, and they may have even called them war scythes

They called them "scythes", not "war scythes".

but when the average person asks "How do you fight with a scythe," he's referring to the definition there, not asking how you can make a weapon out of a scythe.

It wasn't the average person asking, it was a roleplaying gamer. That establishes a context: the presence of "scythe" on the weapon listings of some RPGs. What I answered explained that context, and was helpful in clearing up the OP's perplexity.

I gave a useful, responsive, well-informed answer to the OP, taking into account the context. First I was contradicted, and now I am being criticised for knowing the answer when you didn't.

[tshiggins]

Wow, you guys are gettin' sorta snarly.

I think we should move this discussion in a more peaceful, rational and benign direction.

So, in that spirit, how would a ninja with a war-scythe stack up against a Lakota with a katana?

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Brett

I gave a useful, responsive, well-informed answer to the OP, taking into account the context. First I was contradicted, and now I am being criticised for knowing the answer when you didn't.

If someone asked "Assuming a person could fly, how fast could they realistically go," and you replied "That depends on the airplane they are travelling in," you would be technically and literally correct, but your response would not be helpful to the question at hand.

You are technically correct that those are scythes, as they called them scythes. You are also technically correct to that being a vastly superior form of using a scythe to fight with. It is not, however, the sort of scythe the OP refers to, and your insistence that you are technically correct borders on thread jacking.

EDIT: Furthermore, it is on this point of threadjacking that you are being criticized, not for knowing a fascinating and accurate, but completely tangential, fact.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

Wow, you guys are gettin' sorta snarly.

I think we should move this discussion in a more peaceful, rational and benign direction.

So, in that spirit, how would a ninja with a war-scythe stack up against a Lakota with a katana?

Depends. How long have they been hiking before the battle and how much does their armor weigh?

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

If someone asked "Assuming a person could fly, how fast could they realistically go," and you replied "That depends on the airplane they are travelling in," you would be technically and literally correct, but your response would not be helpful to the question at hand.

But it isn't like that. In the context of "roleplaying in general", where "scythe" does appear on the weapons tables of some games, my answer explains the phenomenon which is at the root of the question. My answer is responsive and informative as well as being correct. Whereas being the ninth person to say "it is not possible" is unhelpful as well as being wrong.

[sjard]

Originally Posted by Brett

The last time there was a pitched battle fought on English soil, at least 500 scythemen fought. Their weapons were scythes, improvised from the agricultural implements. They were contemporaneously referred to as "scythes". That is not "definitely cinematic", it is "definitely historical".

I have no problem with the concept of fighting with an altered version. My statement was in regards to an unaltered version.


And I was mistaken, it happens.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Brett

It wasn't the average person asking, it was a roleplaying gamer. That establishes a context: the presence of "scythe" on the weapon listings of some RPGs. What I answered explained that context, and was helpful in clearing up the OP's perplexity.

I gave a useful, responsive, well-informed answer to the OP, taking into account the context. First I was contradicted, and now I am being criticised for knowing the answer when you didn't.

I would like to point out at this juncture that I can't find any mention of scythes in the Advanced D&D Player's hand book (1st or 2nd editions), but there is a listing for a scythe in the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog, which is illustrated with the agricultural implement. The OP didn't mention D&D, and the only references people have mentioned have been #rd edition D&D, so I suspest that Gary Gygax wasn't thinking of any type of scythe at all, as he didn't include them in the game, and based on the illustration, the editors of D&D Third edition probably did mean the agricultural implement, whethere they should have or not. In my 3ed GURPS basic book, the listing for the scythe says that it can be swung for impaling at -2 to hit, which implies that the GURPS editors at the time were also thinking of an unmodified scythe, as bills, glaives, and naginatas can't do so.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Brett

But it isn't like that. In the context of "roleplaying in general", where "scythe" does appear on the weapons tables of some games, my answer explains the phenomenon which is at the root of the question. My answer is responsive and informative as well as being correct. Whereas being the ninth person to say "it is not possible" is unhelpful as well as being wrong.

I find your claim that Gygax included the scythe because of warscythes (and that's exactly what Wikipedia, which you claim is superior, calls them) dubious. Moreover, clearly, further editions portray this weapon as an agricultural scythe, and other games follow suit (Exalted's Scythe is not a warscythe). If you ask the average person or roleplayer what a scythe is, they will not start to discuss the Revolt of Horea. They are referring to an agricultural device. Even Wikipedia, again, which you cite, remarks: "The scythe, a farming tool, could be easily transformed into an effective infantry weapon." Note that it doesn't say "The scythe is an effective infantry weapon," which would be alot easier to say if that were the case.

You argue that those of us who say "A scythe isn't a useful weapon," are incorrect, yet you're basically saying the same thing. You argue that a scythe is a perfectly great weapon after it has been modified into a polearm.

The most helpful person in this thread, in fact, was the fellow who posted the link to the manual that describes how to use the scythe, an agricultural tool, in battle. That actually describes how you use a scythe in battle, thus answering the OP's question.

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

scythe
  /saɪð/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahyth] Show IPA noun, verb, scythed, scyth⋅ing.
Use scythe in a Sentence
See web results for scythe
See images of scythe
–noun
1. an agricultural implement consisting of a long, curving blade fastened at an angle to a handle, for cutting grass, grain, etc., by hand.
–verb (used with object)
2. to cut or mow with a scythe.

No mention of "spear thingy used in battle."

That might just be because that definition is contemporary, and nowadays people don't hardly ever have the blacksmith straighten out the blades on their scythes and have themselves a peasant revolt. Back when people did that sort of thing, they called scythes with straightened blades 'scythes'. Because that's what they were, with a straightened blade or not.


Hans