07-15-2018, 06:36 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Main-Gauche
Quote:
I propose a simpler solution if you must have them. Make Main Gauche a one point talent that requires Knife (or sword). Let characters use it as a small shield (against hand weapons only) or as a dagger each turn (at no DX adjustment). Last edited by tbeard1999; 07-15-2018 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Added “against hand weapons” clarification. |
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07-15-2018, 08:22 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Main-Gauche
Main-Gauche is not a rational choice in the full rules, but I feel like it might have been the only way you could do two melee attacks in the same turn before ITL was published (though I haven't dug into the archives to confirm).
The revision is a good idea; it uses a new mechanic for defensive value, but that mechanic is also introduced in the draft rules for expert weapon skills so it seems to be a more general innovation steve is deliberating. If so, it introduces to TFT something akin to the PD scores in GURPS, which I approve of. Let's see if he has the moxie to use the same idea for shields - a change I would heartily endorse! |
07-15-2018, 10:25 AM | #13 |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Main-Gauche
Plus, let's face it, any swashbuckler worthy of the name should take this skill -- otherwise Alexandra Dumas will never write "The Three Wizardly Musketeers" on Cidri... ;-)
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07-15-2018, 10:59 AM | #14 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Main-Gauche
Because you can't bring a shield to dinner theater?
:-) More seriously, the main-gauche isn't a battlefield weapon the way a shield is, and if it works out that medium/large shields are THE choice when in battle or adventuring, that's all to the good, supported by rather a lot of history. The smaller stuff is there for portability, though I've been consistently AMAZED at how much area denial a 12-18" buckler can provide. I'll stop there, only to add that the comment about how actively heater shields were used is bang-on, and the extent to which the shield is the primary weapon, not just an ancillary part of the defense (or, "in DnD, it just sits there giving +1/+2 to AC; in GURPS, it just sits there giving Defense Bonus until it's time to stop an arrow"), was a real eye opener to me as I started studying fighting that was modeled on the manuals and lethal intent.
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07-15-2018, 11:31 AM | #15 |
President and EIC
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Re: Main-Gauche
I needed to add a smiley or else be MORE pedantic. The word as I was taught it is 'block' with a shield, 'parry' with a dagger. Tomato, tomotto.
Whether you call it a block or a parry, the EDGE of the shield is what does the work, and you want to move the shield the minimum possible unless you think you can pull off a shield disarm, which is NOT something I want to try to represent in the rules. I totally believe that a buckler would be a good defense against a greatsword. You use the edge to knock the sword offline, rather than trying to hold the shield where it will STOP the blow, right? I fear that it is far too late for any "shields now subtract from foe's DX" rule - that would strike at the underpinnings of the system and character design as now exists. For instance, if you are striking with an adjDX of 10 now, and the foe's shield reduces your DX by 2, you are now striking at adjDX 8 - you have fallen off the wrong side of the bell curve. Of course, if you yourself had a shield, it is no longer reducing your DX. But that removes the penalty to carry a large vs. small shield, and as a small fighter, I can tell you that the difference is real. |
07-15-2018, 04:22 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Main-Gauche
Quote:
[HOWITZER] the best I have is the normalized DX mechanic combined with a minus to-hit replacing the damage reduction (the normalization mitigates the weirdness of the curve effects) I'm still loving the way that works, but it seems regarded as too different to be more than an optional/house rule.[/HOWITZER] I don't follow. Why would you remove the DX penalty from the wearer of the shield? |
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07-15-2018, 04:32 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
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Re: Main-Gauche
Quote:
The use of a center-handle buckler, against a thrusting blade, you push it forward to create a "cone of defense" ... and you keep it positioned such that their blade has to be pushed past their arm length to hit you. Larger shields, really meaning strapped to the forearm types, have several defensive techniques.
larger Shield offensive techniques include...
Shields are not a good passive defense... if you passively hang it, it'll just be used to break your arm and/or teeth... |
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07-15-2018, 04:48 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Main-Gauche
Honestly, I think that level of change to the rules might need to be postponed until The Fantasy Trip II: Fantasy Boogaloo hits the market. Right now people (including me) are having a hard-enough time wrapping their heads around a few new talents and the new XP/Attribute Caps ideas! ;-)
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07-15-2018, 04:56 PM | #19 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Main-Gauche
It's fine; if the treatment of shields in TFT were a real problem people never would have fallen in love with the game. GURPS treats them better (I would say much better). And in a way that could be translated to TFT without complicating the game (not all differences are complications). But, in the end its a matter of taste and several different approaches could result in similarly good games. The saving grace here, I would say, is that TFT is a very 'gamey' game - it has a certain level of versimilitude, but really it is a chess-like game and not a simulation. So long as shields work within the broader system, and are a sensible part of the 'trade space' of character abilities, then its good.
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07-15-2018, 05:01 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Main-Gauche
Well said.
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