[Alt History] Alternative conclusion to the Pacific conflict in WW 2

[Carl Rodgers]

Instead of employing atomic weapons, the US proceeds with a ground based invasion of the Japanese islands in World War 2. What do you think would have happened and what changes would occur in the modern world?

[Mack_JB]

Hundreds of thousands more Japanese civilians die, the military is 100% dead, and Japan ceases to exist as a modern nation state after the US conquers and occupies it. Since we're doing Alt History, then sometime in the late 60's it becomes the newest of the United States.

[johndallman]

If the Japanese resist as they intended ... then yes, what he said.

[adm]

There would also be significant US causalities, the US post war advantage of comparatively few combat loses would be gone. Hokkaido, and ~half of Honshu would Russian. There would be no South Korea.

Possible upside, after fighting closely enough together to actually fight side by side against Japan, post war relations between the USA and USSR may be more diplomatic than military.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Mack_JB

... Since we're doing Alt History, then sometime in the late 60's it becomes the newest of the United States.

Before Puerto Rico, or at the same time (which would make Japan the 52nd state)?

[whswhs]

The admission of a single state that had that many electoral votes would be deeply contested. And it seems likely that after brutal defeat in a conventional war, Japan would still be bitterly opposed to the USA, possibly to the point of terrorism or guerrilla war. I'd bet on Robinson Jeffers's "We must put freedom away and stiffen into bitter empire."

[Mack_JB]

Heck, go for broke. We make Japan, the Philippines, and all of our Pacific Territories like Guam and Samoa into States, rather than giving any of them independence or autonomy.

[Johan Larson]

Germany fought damn hard against the Allies when they were invaded. But you didn't see them drilling civilians to fight with spears, and they weren't seriously considering liquidating everyone who wasn't fit to fight, even in the darkest days. The Japanese did. It is very likely the Japanese would have fought even more viciously than the Germans on home soil, necessitating an even more devastating invasion, and leaving an even more smashed country at the end of it.

The victorious Allies might have found themselves occupying a nation of nothing but women, children, and old men, and not so many of them, either.

[adm]

Originally Posted by Johan Larson

Germany fought damn hard against the Allies when they were invaded. But you didn't see them drilling civilians to fight with spears, and they weren't seriously considering liquidating everyone who wasn't fit to fight, even in the darkest days. The Japanese did. It is very likely the Japanese would have fought even more viciously than the Germans on home soil, necessitating an even more devastating invasion, and leaving an even more smashed country at the end of it.

The victorious Allies might have found themselves occupying a nation of nothing but women, children, and old men, and not so many of them, either.

Considering the number of civilian suicides at Okinawa, you are likely right, if not understating the outcome.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by adm

There would also be significant US causalities, the US post war advantage of comparatively few combat loses would be gone. Hokkaido, and ~half of Honshu would Russian. There would be no South Korea.

Possible upside, after fighting closely enough together to actually fight side by side against Japan, post war relations between the USA and USSR may be more diplomatic than military.

While it seems likely that there would be no South Korea, Russia did not have the shipping capacity to launch an amphibious invasion. Also I don't think there would be all that many U.S. casualties because it is really unlikely that that Japan would fight for long after after they were convinced that they couldn't break the American beach head. I think that would be sufficient to convince them there was no hope.