Alt History: Israel loses in 1948

[Captain-Captain]

The state of Israel is overpowered and ceases to exist. Things do not go well for recent Jewish immigrants nor for native born Jews either but the king of Jordan does makes a distinction and makes it very easy for them to leave.

This is the carrot to the stick of staying there.

There will be no Palestinian problem, no unifying Israeli enemy on their to deal with. Without that, far less anti-American opinion in the middle east. Major oil producing national governments are stronger allies because nothing really conflicts with their lucrative trade with the Western oil companies.

So what happens?

The Soviets put their efforts where?

Are thext proxy wars between the US in Africa, South and Central America or Southeast Asia as in our timeline?

[Flyndaran]

Couldn't that result in more infighting among states and possibly an even more violent region?

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Couldn't that result in more infighting among states and possibly an even more violent region?

Certainly.

More factionalism, a more balkanized middle east, the oil producing states more dependent on US Military aid, and secure in their power, more local tyranny.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

I'm gonna guess that in the short run the region will be more peaceful because there are no Arab-Israeli wars. In the long run, though, we end up more or less where we are because there are a lot of factors in play beyond Israel. We still sponsor a coup in support of the shah because we're still scared of the Russians, the Soviets still have their client states because Middle Eastern oil is still important, Naser still plays both sides, and when Arab nationalism plays out, we're back to Islamists as the only force which can oppose the nationalists. Now, the US is less hated because we're not supporting a country the Arabs all hate in their back yard, but the Cold War and basic unsuitability of the maps forced on the region at the end of WWI are still in effect.

[Flyndaran]

Come on, there are many reasons to detest Israel that have nothing to do with racism. The cold war gave the world loads of reasons to detest the U.S.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

The state of Israel is overpowered and ceases to exist. Things do not go well for recent Jewish immigrants nor for native born Jews either but the king of Jordan does makes a distinction and makes it very easy for them to leave.

<snort> In order to make it very easy for them to leave there has to be a place that would welcome a flood of penniless and stateless refugees. Most likely they'd end up in refugee camps shooting rockets at Jordan.

This is the carrot to the stick of staying there.

There will be no Palestinian problem, no unifying Israeli enemy on their to deal with. Without that, far less anti-American opinion in the middle east.

There's still a cold war. The United States still ends up backing people like the Shah of Iran, and the Saudi monarchy.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

<snort> In order to make it very easy for them to leave there has to be a place that would welcome a flood of penniless and stateless refugees. Most likely they'd end up in refugee camps shooting rockets at Jordan.

They were scattered in the Era of Rome and scattered again in this event. The US very likely absorbs a huge chunk of themb ut there does not have to be a Jewish homeland.

There's still a cold war. The United States still ends up backing people like the Shah of Iran, and the Saudi monarchy.

A I stated in post #3:

"More factionalism, a more balkanized middle east, the oil producing states more dependent on US Military aid, and secure in their power, more local tyranny."

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

<snort> In order to make it very easy for them to leave there has to be a place that would welcome a flood of penniless and stateless refugees. Most likely they'd end up in refugee camps shooting rockets at Jordan.
....

Turning them into a synonym for terrorist the way the PLO are/were. Now that makes for some serious world jumper's culture shock.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

They were scattered in the Era of Rome and scattered again in this event. The US very likely absorbs a huge chunk of themb ut there does not have to be a Jewish homeland.
...

I wonder what effect that would have on the American Christian zealots that would react violently to any restriction to accessing their holy lands.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I wonder what effect that would have on the American Christian zealots that would react violently to any restriction to accessing their holy lands.

Minimal, and with an even more minimal impact on international relations. While such restrictions might happen now and again in response to diplomatic flare-ups, there's no particular reason for a bigger Hashemite Jordan (or whoever ends up with Jerusalem) to declare a wholesale embargo on Christian tourism. If it did happen, American Christians probably wouldn't feel much of an impact, since large-scale, middle-class international tourism is a product of the jet age and hadn't developed by the late 40s. And if they did get upset about it, not a lot would happen because until Reagan, zealous Christians largely stayed out of politics. Too worldly, and all that.