DR confusion

[Lameth]

Hello, I have two players in my urban fantasy game, each with a different form of DR due to RPM and I am not sure how to treat each one, under different conditions. A little explanation on damage taken, and BFT, would be great please.

Player 1: DR 5 Tough Skin [Lesser Strengthen Body]
Player 2: DR 6 Force Field, Physical Attacks only. [Greater Create Energy]

how would each person be effect by the following conditions?

an area explosion due to a bomb they are caught in at ground zero of 12 points of Burn Damage, 5 cutting due to frag.
1:
2:
A fall from a building that they suffer 3 points from crushing
1:
2:
A hit with a sword of 10 points of cutting
1:
2:
A magic conjured lightning bolt of 5 points of burn damage
1:
2:
A dart thrown at them, poisoned, that does 2 points impaling, and a follow up blood agent toxin.
1:
2:
A punch of 10 points of damage
1:
2:
A nurse, while in hospital, wishing to run an IV and inserts a needle
1:
2:
A gun is fired at them, 9mm, doing piercing of 10 points
1:
2:

thank you for any help you can give. I am trying to plot out the various scenes of when one type if better or worse then the other, and why to pick either one with its limitations.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Lameth

an area explosion due to a bomb they are caught in at ground zero of 12 points of Burn Damage, 5 cutting due to frag.

Bombs typically do Crushing, not Burning, but assuming some sort of magical firey explosion...
1: Character suffers 7 burn damage past DR. The fragmentation fails to penetrate, and doesn't have enough basic damage for blunt trauma, so is outright negated.
2: Character suffers full 12 burn damage (DR doesn't protect from energy). The fragmentation fails to penetrate.

For a normal, crushing explosion, the crushing damage would fall under "physical attack," so the first would be largely unchanged (cr instead of burn), while the second would be 6 cr past DR.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A fall from a building that they suffer 3 points from crushing

1: Character is unharmed (3 cr insufficient to cause blunt trauma).
2: Character is unharmed (physical damage).

Originally Posted by Lameth

A hit with a sword of 10 points of cutting

1: Character suffers 5 cut damage past DR, for 7 HP injury.
2: Character suffers 4 cut damage past DR, for 6 HP injury.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A magic conjured lightning bolt of 5 points of burn damage

1: Character is unharmed.
2: Character suffers 5 burn.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A dart thrown at them, poisoned, that does 2 points impaling, and a follow up blood agent toxin.

1: Character is unharmed by the dart (fails to penetrate), but the blood agent is able to have a normal effect.
2: Character is unharmed, and the poison fails to have any effect.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A punch of 10 points of damage

1: Character takes 5 points of crushing damage (due to the attack penetrating DR, blunt trauma doesn't come into play).
2: Character takes 4 points of crushing damage.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A nurse, while in hospital, wishing to run an IV and inserts a needle

1: The nurse might notice the needle is a bit harder to get in than usual, but otherwise probably no effect (optionally, nurse is unable to run a proper IV, as she can't reach a vein).
2: Unless the DR can be turned off, the nurse is unable to penetrate the skin.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A gun is fired at them, 0mm, doing piercing of 10 points

Not certain what caliber you actually had in mind, but...
1: Character suffers 5 points of pi damage.
2: Character suffers 4 points of pi damage.

For blunt trauma, one important thing to keep in mind is that if any damage penetrates, the target suffers no blunt trauma.

[AlexanderHowl]

Tough Skin includes Flexible, so they are mutually exclusive modifiers.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by Lameth

Hello, I have two players in my urban fantasy game, each with a different form of DR due to RPM and I am not sure how to treat each one, under different conditions. A little explanation on damage taken, and BFT, would be great please.

Player 1: DR 5 Tough Skin, Flexible [Lesser Strengthen Body]
Player 2: DR 6 Force Field, Physical Attacks only. [Greater Create Energy]

First, P1 can't have both Tough Skin and Flexible on that DR, Tough skin includes all the effects of the Flexible limitation. Second, That should also be a Greater Strengthen Body because it is making P1 skin tougher than an elephants hide, it is also very obvious to those that see them that their skin just toughened up a lot, They would need No signature so their skin still looked normal. That may not have been something you thought about, and its ok for it to be the way you have it, just wanted to point out the double dip and the cost error.

Originally Posted by Lameth

how would each person be effect by the following conditions?

an area explosion due to a bomb they are caught in at ground zero of 12 points of Burn Damage, 5 cutting due to frag.

1: DR protects as normal.
2: DR protects as normal, though damage is burn damage, it is from a bomb which is a material substance.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A fall from a building that they suffer 3 points from crushing

1: DR protects as normal.
2: DR protects as normal, Fall is physical.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A hit with a sword of 10 points of cutting

1: DR protects as normal.
2: DR protects as normal.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A magic conjured lightning bolt of 5 points of burn damage

1: DR protects as normal.
2: DR does not protect, source is an energy attack.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A dart thrown at them, poisoned, that does 2 points impaling, and a follow up blood agent toxin.

1: DR protects as normal, but the follow up effects them regardless.
2: DR protects as normal and no follow up since the dart did not do enough damage to penetrate DR.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A punch of 10 points of damage

1: DR protects as normal.
2: DR protects as normal.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A nurse, while in hospital, wishing to run an IV and inserts a needle

1: DR protects as normal.
2: DR protects as normal.

Originally Posted by Lameth

A gun is fired at them, 9mm, doing piercing of 10 points

1: DR protects as normal.
2: DR protects as normal.

Originally Posted by Lameth

thank you for any help you can give. I am trying to plot out the various scenes of when one type if better or worse then the other, and why to pick either one with its limitations.

Basically, the second is good against anything that would not blast them with an energy attack (magic/flamethrower etc.) and the first is good against anything that does not have a follow up (poison or really anything). Like, P1 would be effected by a taser where as P2 would not since the prongs(?) would not make it pass the DR force field. But P2 would get hurt by a 5 point Fireball where as P1 can shrug it off.

[Lameth]

Thank you all very much ... that helps a lot

[transmetahuman]

Originally Posted by Lameth

1: DR protects as normal.
2: DR protects as normal, though damage is burn damage, it is from a bomb which is a material substance.

Any kind of burn damage caused by fire or non-radiant heat will have a material source (the hot gasses, liquids, or solids in contact with the skin - you're not burned by the light of the fire, after all). Are you saying DR limited to physical attacks will still work against damage caused by flamethrowers, branding irons, and [edit: the burn damage caused by] standing in the middle of a raging forest fire? Even a fireball spell has a material manifestation.

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Any kind of burn damage caused by fire or non-radiant heat will have a material source (the hot gasses, liquids, or solids in contact with the skin - you're not burned by the light of the fire, after all). Are you saying DR limited to physical attacks will still work against damage caused by flamethrowers, branding irons, and [edit: the burn damage caused by] standing in the middle of a raging forest fire? Even a fireball spell has a material manifestation.

Physical damage isn't a GURPS term of art, so it means anything the GM says it means. If that's a problem then the limit should be written more formally e.g. "all Crushing, Cutting, Impaling, and Piercing damage" (which is how I'd define it).

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

Physical damage isn't a GURPS term of art, so it means anything the GM says it means. If that's a problem then the limit should be written more formally e.g. "all Crushing, Cutting, Impaling, and Piercing damage" (which is how I'd define it).

This is of particular note! Physical damage is a meaningless phrase.
It needs to be defined better.
What exactly does the creator mean by it?
Does it mean DR:6 (Not vs energy)? Or is it DR:6 (cr, cut, imp, & pi only)?

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Tinman

This is of particular note! Physical damage is a meaningless phrase.
It needs to be defined better.
What exactly does the creator mean by it?
Does it mean DR:6 (Not vs energy)? Or is it DR:6 (cr, cut, imp, & pi only)?

"Not vs. Energy" isn't the best defined either.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Any kind of burn damage caused by fire or non-radiant heat will have a material source (the hot gasses, liquids, or solids in contact with the skin - you're not burned by the light of the fire, after all). Are you saying DR limited to physical attacks will still work against damage caused by flamethrowers, branding irons, and [edit: the burn damage caused by] standing in the middle of a raging forest fire? Even a fireball spell has a material manifestation.

It would not help against flamethrowers, as I mentioned, because of exactly what you describe. Such a weapon is transferring thermal energy which would fall under "energy attacks" for me.

the crushing damage from a Branding iron would be stopped (if the hit was weak enough) and any follow up damage (which would be burning in this case I assume) even though that follow up is an "energy attack" the carrier attack failed to go through. Now, if it was a lightsaber? bye bye (insert body part here).

standing in the middle of a raging fire (forest or not) would count as "energy damage" to me.

The OP states "an area explosion due to a bomb they are caught in at ground zero" That would fall under material substance and would count for me if I was GM. Yeah it is doing burn and not cr, that is how the OP wants it. Though if it is meant that way (as in it was a fireball) then I would not count the DR (force field physical only) as stopping the damage.

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

Physical damage isn't a GURPS term of art, so it means anything the GM says it means. If that's a problem then the limit should be written more formally e.g. "all Crushing, Cutting, Impaling, and Piercing damage" (which is how I'd define it).

Page 46 under Very Common for Limited Defense defines physical damage as "from any material substance". I would also list it as you did, though. The problem is that pi imp and even cut can be labeled as "energy damage" as well, depending on what the attack is. Which is why instead of doing that the simply label it as what I mentioned, Material substance.

Originally Posted by Tinman

This is of particular note! Physical damage is a meaningless phrase.
It needs to be defined better.
What exactly does the creator mean by it?
Does it mean DR:6 (Not vs energy)? Or is it DR:6 (cr, cut, imp, & pi only)?

Very important difference being pointed out here! As I mentioned, cut imp pi and even cr can have not physical material origins. A sonic attack would be crushing. I laser can be impaling or even piercing. Magical or superpowers are also relevant, I can create a blade of pure light that can cut anything. If you have DR (physical only) it will not protect you against it since it is an energy blade but if you have DR (imp and cut only) now I will have a hard time hurting you.

The important thing is that the OP and GM understand what physical means, and more importantly, if the damage should qualify as it.