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Old 10-14-2016, 09:15 AM   #1
cvannrederode
 
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Default Question on SM -1 Bows

In our current Banestorm campaign, we have a Halfling (SM -1, ST 7) archer, and he's running into some difficulty with his low strength.

The only bow he can use at his strength is the Short Bow, all the other bows have ST 10 or higher. He really had his heart set on a composite bow.

(Crossbows just didn't feel right for the character, and would draw too much attention in game anyways. A bow he can get away with/hide easier than a crossbow)

My questions is, does anyone know if the rules on page 20 of Low Tech 2 apply to ranged weapons. I've read them through a couple of times, and tried to apply them to composite bows, but I just can't shake the feeling that they are for melee weapons only.

C
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:26 AM   #2
chandley
 
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Default Re: Question on SM -1 Bows

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Originally Posted by cvannrederode View Post

My questions is, does anyone know if the rules on page 20 of Low Tech 2 apply to ranged weapons. I've read them through a couple of times, and tried to apply them to composite bows, but I just can't shake the feeling that they are for melee weapons only.

C
You can use those rules to determine weight and minST. Dont adjust a bows damage though, that is based on rated ST.

If for some reason you converted your bow into an improvised club, you would modify THAT damage according to the table.

And of course, rated ST should have some kind of maximum that reducing the size of the bow affects. But outside of building it with The Deadly Spring rules, GURPS has no guidelines for max rated ST.
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:45 AM   #3
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Dont adjust a bows damage though, that is based on rated ST.
The weapon's damage bonus, though, is what's in question, not the base damage. Thrust+1, +2, or +3, depending (in Basic) only on the adjective applied to the bow. ST modifies Thrust -- but what modifies the fixed add? I wouldn't feel guilty about reducing that bonus per LTC2. Though I agree those rules aren't meant for ranged weapons. The text notes they're not even meant to be realistic, but instead just a way to hack a bonus or penalty for oversized World of Warcraft- or anime-style Weapons Of Unusual Size.

I don't think it's unreasonable also to reduce Acc, as a smaller bow with slower, shorter arrows is likely to be less accurate -- at least, if there's any reason for a "short bow" to be less accurate than a "longbow" in the first place. Acc isn't covered by LTC2, but treating the Acc for muscle-powered ranged weapons like the damage mod might not go too far awry.

I imagine the only reason that the player cares whether the bow is "composite" or not is simply those stat mods, reading "composite" as "better stats", and not "made from layered horn and other materials". Is there any reason in the setting that halflings would make such weapons? (You might, for instance, argue that it makes sense to use a more efficient spring if you're a small race. But halflings aren't generally warlike, and are also generally very much like idealized English country-folk, neither of which suggested sophisticated horse-archer technology.) Somehow I doubt that having his character forced to carry a pure wooden self-bow rather than a culturally correct artifact is the root of the complaint. Regardless, Acc 2 and Thrust+2 is still better than the Basic shortbow, even if it's not the same as the full-sized composite bow (Acc 3 and Thrust +3), so the player can feel like he won an upgrade.

Pyramid #3/33 includes "The Deadly Spring", which is an article devoted to designing bows to fit your specs. It might have more insight on changing SM for bows -- though I haven't read the article myself.
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Question on SM -1 Bows

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Pyramid #3/33 includes "The Deadly Spring", which is an article devoted to designing bows to fit your specs. It might have more insight on changing SM for bows -- though I haven't read the article myself.
The Deadly Spring is callibrated to produce bows with damage more scaled to gun damage, which in GURPS is relatively well tied to real-world metrics. Ballistic wounding isn't exactly simple, but it's a well studied problem.

The problem is that GURPS standard bows are tied to strength based damage, which is not calibrated to any real-world metric at all. It's based around the satisfying gamist principle of +1 ST gives you about +1 sw damage and about +0.5 thr damage. Which produces damage in the range of gun damage with your bare hands or simple weapons, in a range of ST that's officially "human".

Which is a long way of saying "it nerfs bows". So your player won't want that :D
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: Question on SM -1 Bows

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The Deadly Spring is callibrated to produce bows with damage more scaled to gun damage, which in GURPS is relatively well tied to real-world metrics. Ballistic wounding isn't exactly simple, but it's a well studied problem.

The problem is that GURPS standard bows are tied to strength based damage, which is not calibrated to any real-world metric at all. It's based around the satisfying gamist principle of +1 ST gives you about +1 sw damage and about +0.5 thr damage. Which produces damage in the range of gun damage with your bare hands or simple weapons, in a range of ST that's officially "human".

Which is a long way of saying "it nerfs bows". So your player won't want that :D
You might be surprised, because the reference scale is high-ST bows, where lots of data exists, and while it nerfs high-ST bows for that reason, lower ST bows tend to end up better off. There's also a cinematic damage scale.

Not saying "The Deadly Spring is your answer, accept no substutites," but the tamping down of scaling mostly hurts the high end of damage, but means that low draw weight bows are more dangerous.
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Old 10-14-2016, 12:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Question on SM -1 Bows

There's a reason halflings are so often associated with slings, and you've stumbled directly upon it. I recommend you get one of those instead. (As an added bonus, they're way easier to hide than any kind of bow whatsoever)
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Old 10-14-2016, 12:50 PM   #7
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The Deadly Spring is callibrated to produce bows with damage more scaled to gun damage
Damage aside, does it discuss factors like bow length and draw length, and how they affect stats like Bulk and Acc? Or is it all about damage (and presumably range)?
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Old 10-14-2016, 12:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Question on SM -1 Bows

Basically aspiring to credible ST based damage with 7 ST is . . . less than optimal in some ways
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Old 10-14-2016, 01:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Question on SM -1 Bows

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Damage aside, does it discuss factors like bow length and draw length, and how they affect stats like Bulk and Acc? Or is it all about damage (and presumably range)?
It has some unnecessarily complicated math (you can simplify a lot by just assuming that the designer is competent) but does understand about draw weight and length.
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Old 10-14-2016, 06:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Question on SM -1 Bows

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Damage aside, does it discuss factors like bow length and draw length, and how they affect stats like Bulk and Acc? Or is it all about damage (and presumably range)?
The spreadsheet takes in Draw Weight, total Bow Length, working percentage of the bow, Draw Length, bow material(s), bow construction (self, recurve, reflex, compound), bow shape (round vs rectangular/Dsection), width:thickness ratio, bow quality, bow thickness, and the weight of the arrow.
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