Gestrues and Incantations

[JimmyPlenty]

Originally Posted by Skarg

If you allow spellcasting with IQ, expect lots of wizards to put all of their attribute points into IQ, and their general power level to increase, and lots more high-IQ spells in play.

Wizard is designed to feature trade-offs, not "it's all just about IQ".

Do you think that would happen even if using IQ was only for silent spells at a 4/IQ? How about 5/IQ?

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty

Do you think that would happen even if using IQ was only for silent spells at a 4/IQ? How about 5/IQ?

Molly starts with 37.5% for a 3/DX roll and 50% for a 5/IQ roll so this is gravy for her.

[JimmyPlenty]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Molly starts with 37.5% for a 3/DX roll and 50% for a 5/IQ roll so this is gravy for her.

Please show the character so I can get an idea what you mean.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty

Please show the character so I can get an idea what you mean.

What the fnord is a Molly? => https://www.hcobb.com/tft/Molly.html

[JimmyPlenty]

Goblin wizard
ST 6, DX 9, IQ 17, MA 10
2-h wooden maul/staff-v(1d/1d+2)
robe(no protection)
goblin and sorcerers' tongues.
staff-v spell.

OK. I'll bite on this.

The first thing is that a 17 is the highest echelon of society for that stat. We need to remember that.

I would expect Michael Jordan to have a DX of 17 and be able to pull of the toughest of basketball moves with grace.

So why not Molly? So, she would cast 12 IQ and less spells silently at a equivelent DX 10 on 3 dice. A 13% increase from what she had otherwise. Not a big deal.

And that is for an unrealistic Molly in play. A more subtle 13 or 14 IQ would struggle at 18%-ish on 5 dice.

If the idea of silent spells (and only with silent spells) being a hindrance rather than a privilege is used. It is tough for most mages, even 13 or 14 IQ ones (much above average) to pull it off.

[hcobb]

I strongly suggest applying house rules to hinder rather than help Molly.

[JimmyPlenty]

Originally Posted by hcobb

I strongly suggest applying house rules to hinder rather than help Molly.

I would disagree because Molly's don't enter the real picture. They are irrelevant. They only exist as long as the flame from my lighter doesn't touch the character sheet.

If this were a game of Melee or Wizard, I would say you'd be right. Those demand the upmost of balance. But for an RPG, with its ever expanding variables, things should be tuned toward the average, playable character.

Worrying about outliers paves its way to madness. Sure, it is a good exercise to point out flaws. (which you do very well) But the work is never done. Like a siren atop a spirialing staircase, beckoning one hither.

Either way, I appreciate you and everyone else chiming in.

[JohnPaulB]

Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty

Thinking if a wizard does not have to move their hands or speak to cast a spell, they roll against IQ instead to cast a spell since it has little do do anymore about movement.

I think that when a wizard learns a spell, he learns to use it via the physicality of space (DX) or mental visualization (IQ).

Spells based on DX have physical gestures that need to be done (with both hands) to aid in casting. The voice also conveys the power of the casting.
The wizard has trained his body gestures to do the magic for him.
The wizard also has memorized, enunciates and projects the sound element to aid in doing the magic for him.
The casting roll (DX) then verifies that the character did the right gestures and vocals.

Spells based on IQ also go through the same process but with casting IQ rolls.

- - - - - - -

I like to think of Spells based on DX as ones in which the character is trained to imagine physically doing the thing sought, like throwing the spell to hit a person, etc.
I like to think of Spells based on IQ are ones that the character dreams a result, like an image of a fighter.

When a wizard has 2 – 4 IQ above a spell level, then he has enough intelligence to visualize doing the complete gesture or vocalization while finishing up the rest of the spell casting. Basically, he is so competent that he is like a Genius Writer, able to leave things out (or edit) and still create an effect.

When a wizard has 5+ IQ above the spell level, he can visualize the whole lower level spell being cast, so does not need the physical world to do the psychic spell.

So I think that all the DX based spells are patterned in the wizard to be done with DX attribute, even if +5 IQ spell wizard is now doing it in a visualizing mental realm.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty

Thinking if a wizard does not have to move their hands or speak to cast a spell, they roll again IQ instead to cast a spell since it has little do do anymore about movement.

There are cases though where this would lead to a gamey circumvention of the intended balance of attributes.

A wizard starting at 8/8/16 could reliably cast IQ 8-11 spells if allowed to roll against the high IQ rather than the abysmally low DX 8. On the other hand it couldn't cast an IQ 12 spell or higher to save its life, as those would require DX rolls, unless it lived long enough to raise its IQ by another point.

As this wizard will probably get a broken neck tripping over their own shoelaces, I suppose it can't really hurt the game too much. But if it did survive and increase IQ to say 20 (now it's still just a 36 point character), and pick up a Mana Staff, it would become a holy terror at long range (T)hrown spells without ever spending a jot of XP to fix that low DX. And in a pinch, it could up that DX with its own Aid spell, which is hardly ever going to miss rolling against 20. We might have ourselves another form of Molly!

[hcobb]

Here's my take on the advantage of IQ for spellcasting.

"There is no penalty to cast a spell of five or more below the casters IQ level in HTH. All higher level spells are cast with a -4 adjustment."