Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-22-2016, 01:19 PM   #11
chandley
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

While your analysis isnt wrong, also remember that Extra Attack is compatible with Move and Attack, where Rapid Strike is not.

For Jason Bourne, Extra Attack is attractive as it lets him use knife and hand strikes, multiple hands in striking, and strike + followup throws or grapples. I think he has enough different skills (even if we never see him use two pistols) to warrant Extra Attack.
__________________
My GURPS stuff

Last edited by chandley; 07-22-2016 at 01:59 PM.
chandley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 01:20 PM   #12
Mailanka
 
Mailanka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Extra Attack gains maximum value when you reach or exceed 3 combat skills in common usage.

As you've said, with only one skill it's overpriced. With two skills there are break points and arguments for both sides. But with 3 or more common usage skills, EA is far better investment than extra skill, if you commonly make more than one attack per round.
I wonder if it would be reasonable to buy Extra Attack with a skill-based limitation, such as "Extra Attack (Unarmed Only)".
__________________
My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars.
If you want to support me, check out my Patreon!
Mailanka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 01:23 PM   #13
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
I'm... not convinced. In fact, I've not really been convinced that Extra Attack is ever worthwhile or the sort of thing we often see in film.

First, you need to use extra attack with a second body part. You can't use the same body part twice without multistrike. Second, it's 25 points, while +6 to skill is 24 points, and will allow you to attack twice (rapid strike is -6), or make a -6 deceptive attack or attack a difficult hit location.

If you do have Extra Attack, it makes sense to use it all the time, otherwise it's a waste of points. It's also more worthwhile if you have multiple skills that you use, but for my money, I'd rather have Trained by a Master (which is only 5 points more expensive), as it gives access to cinematic skills and reduces rapid strike to -3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chandley View Post
I think you answer why Jason Bourne would have it right here. He very frequently transitions between striking and grappling, and does it very quickly. Extra attack lets you do that, where +6 to a striking skill (or grappling skill) does not.
Consider that Jason Bourne constantly uses Judo, Karate and Wrestling skills, very often uses Knife/Main-Gauche or Shortsword/Smallsword and sometimes uses improvised weapons with such skills as Axe/Mace, Flail, Kusari, Staff, Two-Handed Axe/Mace and Two-Handed Flail. Buying many or all of these skills up by 3 or 6 levels is considerably more expensive than taking Extra Attack.

I'd allow a strike and a grapple to count as 'different weapons' for the purposes of Extra Attack. Even though you are using the part of the body that made the first attack to assist in the next, that would be no less true for a kick followed by a full-power punch (footwork is part of all full power attacks), which is canonically legal under unmodified Extra Attack.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 07-22-2016 at 01:30 PM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 01:27 PM   #14
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
I wonder if it would be reasonable to buy Extra Attack with a skill-based limitation, such as "Extra Attack (Unarmed Only)".
Canonically, limiting it to one weapon skill is a mere -20% limitation, which I feel is an unfair value, especially compared to the -60% value that this gives for Striking ST.

In any case, 'Bare Hands' is often listed as the same Limitation value as one weapon skill (e.g. Enhanced Parry, Striking ST), implicitly acknowledging that armed attacks are inherently more effective and that an Advantage that improves the use of all unarmed skills is not more powerful than one that improves the use of a character's main weapon skill.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 01:48 PM   #15
Mailanka
 
Mailanka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Canonically, limiting it to one weapon skill is a mere -20% limitation, which I feel is an unfair value, especially compared to the -60% value that this gives for Striking ST.
I agree that's not a great limitation value, but it seems it's at least reasonable to limit it. I often find Extra Attack becomes much more attractive if limited.

Alright, enough side-tracking, thanks for the input.
__________________
My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars.
If you want to support me, check out my Patreon!
Mailanka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 02:14 PM   #16
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

As for combat advantages Combat Reflexes and High Pain Threshold seem to me to be solid.
Hes in great shape, highly trained and overall good at everything so I would go the 14/15 route for stats.
Also what about 1 level of enhanced Tracking to improve those Evaluates?
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 02:47 PM   #17
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
I'm... not convinced. In fact, I've not really been convinced that Extra Attack is ever worthwhile or the sort of thing we often see in film.

First, you need to use extra attack with a second body part. You can't use the same body part twice without multistrike. Second, it's 25 points, while +6 to skill is 24 points, and will allow you to attack twice (rapid strike is -6), or make a -6 deceptive attack or attack a difficult hit location.

If you do have Extra Attack, it makes sense to use it all the time, otherwise it's a waste of points. It's also more worthwhile if you have multiple skills that you use, but for my money, I'd rather have Trained by a Master (which is only 5 points more expensive), as it gives access to cinematic skills and reduces rapid strike to -3.
It becomes worth it if you ever want to be good with (say) Karate, Judo, and Wrestling, which would cost 72 points to boost to a full extra rapid strike with each.

And Multistrike is perhaps my least-favorite enhancement ever, but even if you do that for +20% and "unarmed combat only" for -10% (b/c single skill is -20%) you're still at about 28 points there. Two skills at +6 each is 48 points, so you're saving.

But if you look at the kind of penalties you have to absorb for doing many levels of Rapid Strike, Extra Attack becomes pretty worth it pretty fast. I use it for Aim+Shoot in Ghostdancer's Aeon campaign (we use On Target, so Aim is an attack variant) and it's very worthwhile - and I do use it all the time, for melee, unarmed combat, and firearms.
__________________
Gaming Ballistic, LLC: Home of Dragon Heresy, Hall of Judgment, and hand-made viking shields.

Live on Kickstarter: The Citadel at Noršvorn. An epic Norse-inspired setting for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG.
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 02:47 PM   #18
Michael Thayne
 
Michael Thayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

According to IMDB, Matt Damon's fight instructor for the movie was an expert in Jeet Kune Do, which per Martial Arts means Karate and Judo. The lack of wrestling also fits with the fact that Jason doesn't seem to rely on brute strength much, nor does he spend a lot of time on ground work.
Michael Thayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 06:33 PM   #19
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

He has a wildcard skill Fist! -24 right? :)


Actually I have no idea. He is much easier to build in something like Nights Black Agents (even a down to earth Feng Shui)than GURPS.
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2016, 08:58 PM   #20
EskrimadorNC
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Default Re: Jason Bourne combat skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
I'll be honest: This is very tricky, almost impossible to do. The best possible approach would be to research the films and do play-by-play of what's going on. I've been doing that a lot with martial arts lately (I started to break down the opening fight of Into the Badlands in GURPS Martial Arts), and I started because Hans-Christian Vortisch's work on translating shooting scenes into Tactical Shooting inspired me, but I noticed something: He never states what the skills involved are. After working through the scenes myself, I could see why.
Indeed. I've been working on the same sort of thing with the hallway fight scene in The Raid: Redemption and with The Bourne Identity. I too was inspired by Hans' write ups on his Blog and here on the forums (specifically his John Wick write-up) and Douglas Cole's Technical Natasha which was mentioned a few times further up-thread.

Again, all of this is just an approximation rather than something definitive. When I see a cool fight scene, I often think "I wonder how I could pull off some of that stuff in a GURPS game?" That's basically what this thread is all about. If you want to build a character that could do to foes what the Bourne character does on screen, how would you do it? What combination of Attributes, Skill Levels, Advantages, Perks, and improved Techniques would you need to pull that off but still be reasonably "in genre"? Karate-30 might fly in a high-end DF game, but pretty much any GM running a Spy-Action-Adventure game in a modern setting would likely give you the stink eye for having something like that on your character sheet.

There has been a lot good feedback since I posted this last night, and most of it lines up with stuff I have already been thinking about. If my thoughts line up with you forum veterans, I think that puts me in good company. :-)
EskrimadorNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
jason bourne, martial arts, technical grappling

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.