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Old 07-19-2015, 03:30 PM   #1
EskrimadorNC
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Default Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

Hello GURPites!

I'm fairly new to GURPS and need some assistance from the experts on these boards.

I'm working on a running a campaign for 2 players that will involve a lot of hand-to-hand fighting and close combat. One of my players is basing his character off of Rama from The Raid (Sample of his skills). Needless to say, this is going to be a bit of cinematic game.

In preparation for the game, he and I have run several test combat scenarios both to familiarize us with the rules (We are using both Martial Arts and Technical Grappling and make sure we have a good understanding of the character's capabilities.

In going through these fights, I ran into a number of situations that I couldn't find answers too in any of the books. Here they are:

Rapid Strike:
-What is the sequence? Attack roll 1, Def roll 1, dmg roll, etc, then Atk roll 2, Def roll 2, dmg roll, etc, or do you roll both attacks first, then both defenses, etc.
-If the former, what happens if the first attack results in the opponent being prone or somehow out of reach for the 2nd attack?
-Is the way you handle two attacks for a Rapid Strike (per above) the same for handling AoA: Double and/or Extra Attack?
-In Martial Arts, the text mentions that when performing a Combination attack, if you use two different hands (i.e. Left Jab + Right Cross) then the Rapid Strike penalty is only -4 instead of -6. Does this only apply when using a purchased/improved Combination technique, or does it apply to any Rapid Strike if you are using different hands for each strike? What about doing a Rapid Strike with 1 punch and 1 kick, or two kicks with different legs?

Grab and Smash
-If you are attempting a Grab and Smash (Kiss the Wall), can you roll against Judo, or are you just limited to DX/Wrestling/Sumo Wrestling?
-The Grab and Smash section in Martial Arts mentions grappling the head of a foe and pulling it down for a knee attack. Is the penalty for targeting the Face still a -5? Do you have to do something mechanically to pull the head down for a knee other than Grapple + Knee attack?
-If I Grapple a Foe's torso with 1 hand and Karate punch him in the face, I can add the CP from the one-handed grab to my punch damage. Does that dynamic change at all if I grappled my Foe's Head instead of his torso? If not what is the motivation for grabbing the head if your goal is Grab & Smash?

Posture

-What posture do you use for someone who is bent over at the waist, but still standing (like this)? Is that in any of the books, or do you have to make something up? If so, what sort of changes to hit location penalties would you make, if any?

Judo Parry
-The rules say that Judo (and Karate) can make a bare-handed parry against a weapon at no penalty. Does this require he Judo guy to step into Close Combat, or can Parry an attack from a Reach 1 sword and remain in an adjacent hex? If so, how do you describe that? Most of the empty hand vs. weapon defenses I've learned in Eskrima deal with intercepting/deflecting the weapon arm, not the weapon itself (unless it's a thrust), which is likely to get you cut if someone is swinging a machete at your head.

Dodging and Parrying
I get that Dodge "skill" is innate and not trained while your Parry "skill" is based off of your melee combat skill level. But the rules state that a Parry does involve some sort of contact.

I've trained with guys who have a lot of boxing experience, and you can certainly tell that their training shows up in their skill at avoiding getting hit with bobs, weaves, and slips. I've talked to my players about house ruling that skilled unarmed fighters can make a non-contact parry to represent these sorts of defensive movements, but am I opening the door to more problems that I haven't foreseen?

For those who want a visual of what I am talking about, check out this video. The relevant part starts around 1:40.

Also, can you change facing after your successfully perform a retreating dodge?

Stunning & Knockdown
So by GURPS rules, Major Wounds, Crippling Limbs, and any damage to the Face, Eye, Skull, and Groin all force a HT roll to avoid Stunning. If the HT roll is failed, the target is Stunned AND automatically falls prone.

Are there any mechanics in GURPS for a Stun in unarmed or armed combat that does not result in falling prone? I've been kicked in the stomach hard enough to knock the wind out of me and "Stun" me for a few seconds in training, but it was easy to keep my feet. In addition, this is a common trope in cinema for the hero to be able to throw a stunning strike that momentarily dazes his opponent, but doesn't drop him prone.

I get that having an opponent who is stunned AND prone is tactically more valuable that one who is just stunned, but I'd like to know if there is a mechanic out there that would produce this affect and I've just missed it. Frankly, I've considered not having prone be part of the stun unless the strike that caused it hit the eye, the face, or the skull. Again, not sure how this would affect other things that I hadn't considering, so I'm asking the experts.

Riposte
-Can you use a Riposte on a Judo Parry and then on your turn perform a defensive Judo throw and the opponent suffers the Riposte penalty on his Active Defense?


That's all I have for now, though I'm sure I'll have a few more questions as we run more fight scenarios leading up to the actual game.

Thanks for any help you all can provide.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:40 PM   #2
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

For Rapid Strike, it's resolve each attack and defense individually. However, even Retreating does not take away the attacker's extra attacks. And yes, the reduced penalty only applies to Techniques you've paid points for.

Unarmed parries can stop weapons with reach, but, damage is rolled against your hands. Probably a good idea to have some hand protection if you intend to rely on this.

All I see on the boxing thing is somebody dodging Telegraphic Attacks. That +2 to dodge makes a world of difference. However, you can allow people to buy a couple levels of Enhanced Dodge, if you wish.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:58 PM   #3
EskrimadorNC
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
For Rapid Strike, it's resolve each attack and defense individually. However, even Retreating does not take away the attacker's extra attacks. And yes, the reduced penalty only applies to Techniques you've paid points for.
Thanks! Martial Arts wasn't very specific about that, but I suppose it does make sense.

Quote:
Unarmed parries can stop weapons with reach, but, damage is rolled against your hands. Probably a good idea to have some hand protection if you intend to rely on this.
Okay, so if a PC attempts a Judo parry vs. a foe with a machete who is attacking from an adjacent hex, that PC will take damage no matter what? Damage to his hands if he makes the parry, damage to whatever body part the foe targets if he fails? Can you help me find where is says that?

Quote:
All I see on the boxing thing is somebody dodging Telegraphic Attacks. That +2 to dodge makes a world of difference. However, you can allow people to buy a couple levels of Enhanced Dodge, if you wish.
They might very well be Telegraphic attacks, and he is most certainly using retreats, which makes for a +5 to defend. Could you do that as well as he does? What about a trained athlete who is in tip-top shape, but has never been in a fight before? I suppose my line of thought is that good quality hand-to-hand combat training is going to involve learning how to defend attacks with body position and footwork, not JUST with Parries/Deflections. And there is a VERY noticeable difference between two people at the same relative DX/HT attempting a no-contact defense like what you saw in the video when one person has had actual training and the other has not.

Perhaps this is just below the resolution of GURPs.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:07 PM   #4
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

The rules for unarmed parries state that damage is rolled against the hand(s). Now, if I have the choice of needing stitches on my palms or a machete to the face, I'll take the messed up hands.

High DX athletes also tend to have very nice reflexes to go with their sport of choice. If they really didn't want to fight, they could probably retreat + dodge telegraphic attacks all day. Throw in Combat Reflexes for people trained in melee combat, a level or two of Enhanced Dodge, and the occasional All Out Defense while waiting for the attacker to screw up, and you get people floating like a butterfly.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:38 PM   #5
Kuba
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
I'm working on a running a campaign for 2 players that will involve a lot of hand-to-hand fighting and close combat. One of my players is basing his character off of Rama from The Raid (Sample of his skills). Needless to say, this is going to be a bit of cinematic game.
Awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-What is the sequence? Attack roll 1, Def roll 1, dmg roll, etc, then Atk roll 2, Def roll 2, dmg roll, etc, or do you roll both attacks first, then both defenses, etc.
Attack roll 1, defence roll 1, attack roll 2, etc.

Imagine a one-two punch, where the first staggers the boxer, leaving them open to the second punch. It'd hardly be fair to ignore the effect of the first punch on the second defence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-If the former, what happens if the first attack results in the opponent being prone or somehow out of reach for the 2nd attack?
Depending on how it happens. Mechanically (by the rules), all attacks will go through. If my first punch knocks my opponent down, it won't happen instantaneously. Plus, given that I'm a trained martial artist, my follow-up attack will be able to compensate for the fact that my opponent might retreat, or fall, or any number of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-Is the way you handle two attacks for a Rapid Strike (per above) the same for handling AoA: Double and/or Extra Attack?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-In Martial Arts, the text mentions that when performing a Combination attack, if you use two different hands (i.e. Left Jab + Right Cross) then the Rapid Strike penalty is only -4 instead of -6. Does this only apply when using a purchased/improved Combination technique, or does it apply to any Rapid Strike if you are using different hands for each strike? What about doing a Rapid Strike with 1 punch and 1 kick, or two kicks with different legs?
They are describing a Dual-Weapon Attack, which yes, is -4 instead of -6. And so long as you use two different limbs to attack, it qualifies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-If you are attempting a Grab and Smash (Kiss the Wall), can you roll against Judo, or are you just limited to DX/Wrestling/Sumo Wrestling?
It wouldn't fit in the traditional use of Judo (gracefully using your opponent's force against them), but I'd allow it with a Technique Adaptation perk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-The Grab and Smash section in Martial Arts mentions grappling the head of a foe and pulling it down for a knee attack. Is the penalty for targeting the Face still a -5? Do you have to do something mechanically to pull the head down for a knee other than Grapple + Knee attack?
The penalty is still -5 (after all, your opponent won't just let you drag their face down), but you can spend CP to reduce that to up to -2. And mechanically, no, it's just a Grapple + Knee Strike to Face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-If I Grapple a Foe's torso with 1 hand and Karate punch him in the face, I can add the CP from the one-handed grab to my punch damage. Does that dynamic change at all if I grappled my Foe's Head instead of his torso? If not what is the motivation for grabbing the head if your goal is Grab & Smash?
According to Martial Arts, you must grapple the area you intend to strike for a Grab and Smash.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-What posture do you use for someone who is bent over at the waist, but still standing (like this)? Is that in any of the books, or do you have to make something up? If so, what sort of changes to hit location penalties would you make, if any?
Standing, or crouching. The attacker is standing to the victim's side hex, so he's at -2 to defend, and must Wild Swing to attack. And that's an arm lock with a solid amount of control (near max CP), so the victim is not going to be fighting back any time soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-The rules say that Judo (and Karate) can make a bare-handed parry against a weapon at no penalty. Does this require he Judo guy to step into Close Combat, or can Parry an attack from a Reach 1 sword and remain in an adjacent hex? If so, how do you describe that? Most of the empty hand vs. weapon defenses I've learned in Eskrima deal with intercepting/deflecting the weapon arm, not the weapon itself (unless it's a thrust), which is likely to get you cut if someone is swinging a machete at your head.
Describe it as the defender ducking under the majority of the swing, and then using their straightened arm to guide the blade over their head. If the defender is wearing any sort of armour, you can say the blade harmless skids over the protective gear. If not, a bit of blood drips down the arm, as the blade connects with bits of skin along the arm, but the defender comes out (relatively) unharmed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
I get that Dodge "skill" is innate and not trained while your Parry "skill" is based off of your melee combat skill level. But the rules state that a Parry does involve some sort of contact.

I've trained with guys who have a lot of boxing experience, and you can certainly tell that their training shows up in their skill at avoiding getting hit with bobs, weaves, and slips. I've talked to my players about house ruling that skilled unarmed fighters can make a non-contact parry to represent these sorts of defensive movements, but am I opening the door to more problems that I haven't foreseen?
You're allowing for unarmed parries when grappling with both hands, which probably won't be game-breaking. It'll probably fit well with the fast-paced martial arts action, and makes grappling viable against multiple opponents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
For those who want a visual of what I am talking about, check out this video. The relevant part starts around 1:40.
So this definitely dodging. He's retreating for +3, he's all-out defending for +2, his opponent is telegraphing, both by telling him how he'll attack (punching, no grappling or kicking), and by telling him where he'll attack (face), which adds another +2, for a total of +7. For an average person, that's a dodge of 15. Combined with the fact that he's facing people who aren't skilled boxers, they're probably rolling against a 9 to hit his face. Hence why he ends up relatively untouched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
Also, can you change facing after your successfully perform a retreating dodge?
By RAW, you may change facing by one hex-side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
So by GURPS rules, Major Wounds, Crippling Limbs, and any damage to the Face, Eye, Skull, and Groin all force a HT roll to avoid Stunning. If the HT roll is failed, the target is Stunned AND automatically falls prone.

Are there any mechanics in GURPS for a Stun in unarmed or armed combat that does not result in falling prone? I've been kicked in the stomach hard enough to knock the wind out of me and "Stun" me for a few seconds in training, but it was easy to keep my feet. In addition, this is a common trope in cinema for the hero to be able to throw a stunning strike that momentarily dazes his opponent, but doesn't drop him prone.
Look at Ear Clap, in Martial Arts on p. 70.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
-Can you use a Riposte on a Judo Parry and then on your turn perform a defensive Judo throw and the opponent suffers the Riposte penalty on his Active Defense?
Yes, and you should.
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:38 PM   #6
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
Dodging and Parrying
I get that Dodge "skill" is innate and not trained while your Parry "skill" is based off of your melee combat skill level. But the rules state that a Parry does involve some sort of contact.

I've trained with guys who have a lot of boxing experience, and you can certainly tell that their training shows up in their skill at avoiding getting hit with bobs, weaves, and slips. I've talked to my players about house ruling that skilled unarmed fighters can make a non-contact parry to represent these sorts of defensive movements, but am I opening the door to more problems that I haven't foreseen?
There's already a rule for that: Boxing Parries get a +3 bonus for Retreats (+2 for Sidesteps, +1 for Slips), versus +1, +0, -1 (respectively) for Brawling or Wrestling parries. So if you're a boxer and you can move around on your defense, you defend better and that can be treated as a non-contact defense.

Also, for more on "what is a parry", see the box by the same name on MA 122.
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:30 PM   #7
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
In preparation for the game, he and I have run several test combat scenarios both to familiarize us with the rules (We are using both Martial Arts and Technical Grappling and make sure we have a good understanding of the character's capabilities.
A wise choice, padawan.

I'm actually quite pleased that there are a very few TG-specific questions (at least so far). If you have any, first check out The Grappling Mat over at my blog and see if you can find answers there, and if not, bring 'em on.

Quote:
Rapid Strike:
-What is the sequence? Attack roll 1, Def roll 1, dmg roll, etc, then Atk roll 2, Def roll 2, dmg roll, etc, or do you roll both attacks first, then both defenses, etc.
Yeah, by and large you resolve them one at a time and have to react if your foe drops. That being said, nothing would break if you resolved them differently (all attacks, then all defenses, then damage) . . . but that isn't the assumption in the rules. Witness the discussion of Combinations in Martial Arts - Peter and Sean call out explicitly that if something disrupts the flow of the combo, it just ends with no recourse. And they are basically trained Rapid Strikes, and they're even priced that way.

Quote:
-If the former, what happens if the first attack results in the opponent being prone or somehow out of reach for the 2nd attack?
I think that the intent is that the attacker is out of luck unless they can compensate. You are allowed, for example, to attack foe A, step, and then attack foe B if you want.

Quote:
-Is the way you handle two attacks for a Rapid Strike (per above) the same for handling AoA: Double and/or Extra Attack?
I might handle them differently (and more leniently) because on the one hand you're giving up all your defenses, and on the other you paid a bunch of points for it.

Quote:
-In Martial Arts, the text mentions that when performing a Combination attack, if you use two different hands (i.e. Left Jab + Right Cross) then the Rapid Strike penalty is only -4 instead of -6. Does this only apply when using a purchased/improved Combination technique, or does it apply to any Rapid Strike if you are using different hands for each strike? What about doing a Rapid Strike with 1 punch and 1 kick, or two kicks with different legs?
I suspect if they'd wanted to make it general, they would have. No-handed parries in TG could have been generalized too . . . but we didn't, and left them grappling only.


Quote:
Grab and Smash
-If you are attempting a Grab and Smash (Kiss the Wall), can you roll against Judo, or are you just limited to DX/Wrestling/Sumo Wrestling?
The list is explict, and Judo isn't on it. Had they wanted to be inclusive, they would have said "any grappling skill" or "your best grappling skill." Judo is not assumed to have nastiness like this in it.

Quote:
-The Grab and Smash section in Martial Arts mentions grappling the head of a foe and pulling it down for a knee attack. Is the penalty for targeting the Face still a -5? Do you have to do something mechanically to pull the head down for a knee other than Grapple + Knee attack?
I think it's a regular attack, and the pulling down is implicit in the AoA bonus damage. So yes, -5, and no, nothing special.

Quote:
-If I Grapple a Foe's torso with 1 hand and Karate punch him in the face, I can add the CP from the one-handed grab to my punch damage. Does that dynamic change at all if I grappled my Foe's Head instead of his torso? If not what is the motivation for grabbing the head if your goal is Grab & Smash?
The box on MA p. 118 stipulates "if the grapple works and you hit the grappled location with a thrusting attack . . . " Technical Grappling doesn't overwrite that, so if you want to punch face, you have to grapple face, unless I state otherwise somewhere. You can usually spend CP from adjacent locations for grappling moves, but Grab and Smash is a strike, so if you want to punch the face, grapple the head (or neck).

That being said, if you want to run it the other way, then no, there's no reason to grapple the head to do G&S to the face.

Quote:
Posture

-What posture do you use for someone who is bent over at the waist, but still standing (like this)? Is that in any of the books, or do you have to make something up? If so, what sort of changes to hit location penalties would you make, if any?
All of the CP he's got on him from Arm Lock, the lock itself, and whatever pain he's suffering are probably sufficient without worrying about posture. If you truly want to bend him over like that, you'll need to execute a Force Posture Change, and since he's clearly not kneeling, the only option is to force him to a Crouch - though not sure what the point of that is.


Quote:
Judo Parry
-The rules say that Judo (and Karate) can make a bare-handed parry against a weapon at no penalty. Does this require he Judo guy to step into Close Combat, or can Parry an attack from a Reach 1 sword and remain in an adjacent hex? If so, how do you describe that? Most of the empty hand vs. weapon defenses I've learned in Eskrima deal with intercepting/deflecting the weapon arm, not the weapon itself (unless it's a thrust), which is likely to get you cut if someone is swinging a machete at your head.

This is a case where realism is trumped (in the rules) by play balance, I think. Judo/Karate are Hard skills, so "parry weapons without penalty" is what they do.

Personally, I like your solution - and if you read Grabbing Parry (TG, p. 42) you'll see a lot of the modifiers address exactly the case you're describing.

Quote:
Are there any mechanics in GURPS for a Stun in unarmed or armed combat that does not result in falling prone? I've been kicked in the stomach hard enough to knock the wind out of me and "Stun" me for a few seconds in training, but it was easy to keep my feet. In addition, this is a common trope in cinema for the hero to be able to throw a stunning strike that momentarily dazes his opponent, but doesn't drop him prone.

I get that having an opponent who is stunned AND prone is tactically more valuable that one who is just stunned, but I'd like to know if there is a mechanic out there that would produce this affect and I've just missed it. Frankly, I've considered not having prone be part of the stun unless the strike that caused it hit the eye, the face, or the skull. Again, not sure how this would affect other things that I hadn't considering, so I'm asking the experts.
I don't think anyone's got a rule for it. If you're not adverse to another roll, make a HT roll to see if you also fall prone. Another way to go would be if you fail the stun roll by X, you also fall prone.

Quote:
Riposte
-Can you use a Riposte on a Judo Parry and then on your turn perform a defensive Judo throw and the opponent suffers the Riposte penalty on his Active Defense?
Yes, and if you have the skill to pull it off, you absolutely should do this.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:43 PM   #8
EskrimadorNC
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

Thanks for all of the great replies. My buddy was right...this game has an awesome community, and it's especially cool when you can get some responses from one of the actual book authors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba View Post
Awesome.
So this definitely dodging. He's retreating for +3, he's all-out defending for +2, his opponent is telegraphing, both by telling him how he'll attack (punching, no grappling or kicking), and by telling him where he'll attack (face), which adds another +2, for a total of +7. For an average person, that's a dodge of 15. Combined with the fact that he's facing people who aren't skilled boxers, they're probably rolling against a 9 to hit his face. Hence why he ends up relatively untouched.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
There's already a rule for that: Boxing Parries get a +3 bonus for Retreats (+2 for Sidesteps, +1 for Slips), versus +1, +0, -1 (respectively) for Brawling or Wrestling parries. So if you're a boxer and you can move around on your defense, you defend better and that can be treated as a non-contact defense.

Also, for more on "what is a parry", see the box by the same name on MA 122.
I think I posted a pretty poor example with the video, so just forget that you all saw that.. In a nutshell, it seems odd to me that if two guys have the same DX and HT, but one has Boxing-11 and the other has Boxing-20, they both have the same chance to defend with a Dodge, and the difference in skill ONLY shows up on a Parry. Or that someone who has been training Boxing for 8 months has the exact same chance of slipping a Right Cross as Floyd Mayweather. Ah well, no RPG can be perfect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
A wise choice, padawan.

I'm actually quite pleased that there are a very few TG-specific questions (at least so far). If you have any, first check out The Grappling Mat over at my blog and see if you can find answers there, and if not, bring 'em on.
I've been excitedly consuming various bits of your blog since I read your reply. Excellent stuff, and cleared up a few of the other questions I had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
Yeah, by and large you resolve them one at a time and have to react if your foe drops. That being said, nothing would break if you resolved them differently (all attacks, then all defenses, then damage) . . . but that isn't the assumption in the rules. Witness the discussion of Combinations in Martial Arts - Peter and Sean call out explicitly that if something disrupts the flow of the combo, it just ends with no recourse. And they are basically trained Rapid Strikes, and they're even priced that way.
That makes sense. What about Deceptive Attack with Rapid Strike? Do you have to take the DA penalty with both attacks, or can you have say the first attack be a Grapple the Torso with a bunch of DA and then the second attack be a Knee to the Groin with no DA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
The box on MA p. 118 stipulates "if the grapple works and you hit the grappled location with a thrusting attack . . . " Technical Grappling doesn't overwrite that, so if you want to punch face, you have to grapple face, unless I state otherwise somewhere. You can usually spend CP from adjacent locations for grappling moves, but Grab and Smash is a strike, so if you want to punch the face, grapple the head (or neck).
The one exception to that is Grab the Torso and Knee the Groin, right? You can't exactly grapple the groin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
This is a case where realism is trumped (in the rules) by play balance, I think. Judo/Karate are Hard skills, so "parry weapons without penalty" is what they do.

Personally, I like your solution - and if you read Grabbing Parry (TG, p. 42) you'll see a lot of the modifiers address exactly the case you're describing.
Yup, I think I'm going to make that a house rule. If you want to barehanded parry a weapon swing attack, you have to step into Close Combat and parry the limbs.

I've looked at Grabbing Parry and realized you either have to have a very high skill for it to work, and you still can really only use it vs. Unarmed opponent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
I don't think anyone's got a rule for it. If you're not adverse to another roll, make a HT roll to see if you also fall prone. Another way to go would be if you fail the stun roll by X, you also fall prone.
Both of those are good. I think I'll stick to "Stun only unless Major Wound to Face, Eye, Skull, and maybe groin on males".


So I remembered another question we had from our playtest. If an NPC has been knocked unconscious from failing a HT roll after going into negative HP, is there anything special about a PC moving through the hex where the NPC's unconscious body is? Having to do an EVADE seems a little much, but maybe it should cost an extra movement point? Not sure, and I couldn't find any rules on that.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:57 PM   #9
Kuba
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
I think I posted a pretty poor example with the video, so just forget that you all saw that.. In a nutshell, it seems odd to me that if two guys have the same DX and HT, but one has Boxing-11 and the other has Boxing-20, they both have the same chance to defend with a Dodge, and the difference in skill ONLY shows up on a Parry. Or that someone who has been training Boxing for 8 months has the exact same chance of slipping a Right Cross as Floyd Mayweather. Ah well, no RPG can be perfect.
Keep in mind that the guy with Boxing-20 probably has some points into Health and DX, increasing his base dodge, and the guy with Boxing-11 is taking telegraphic attacks just to have a chance of hitting the face.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
That makes sense. What about Deceptive Attack with Rapid Strike? Do you have to take the DA penalty with both attacks, or can you have say the first attack be a Grapple the Torso with a bunch of DA and then the second attack be a Knee to the Groin with no DA?
Yeah, you could even add telegraphic to the knee, to signify "winding-up" the knee as you grapple the torso.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
The one exception to that is Grab the Torso and Knee the Groin, right? You can't exactly grapple the groin...
You can actually grapple the groin. See Testicle Grab, on page 40 of Technical Grappling.

But as stated in Martial Arts, p. 118, a grapple to the torso suffices to Grab and Smash: the torso, vitals, groin or spine.
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:17 PM   #10
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Default Re: Need some help with hand-to-hand combat/Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
I think I posted a pretty poor example with the video, so just forget that you all saw that.. In a nutshell, it seems odd to me that if two guys have the same DX and HT, but one has Boxing-11 and the other has Boxing-20, they both have the same chance to defend with a Dodge, and the difference in skill ONLY shows up on a Parry. Or that someone who has been training Boxing for 8 months has the exact same chance of slipping a Right Cross as Floyd Mayweather. Ah well, no RPG can be perfect.
Floyd Mayweather likely has Targeted Attack: Face maxed out, and can afford to use Deceptive Attack to reduce the other guy's effective Dodge score.

Last edited by Nereidalbel; 07-20-2015 at 08:20 PM.
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