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Old 08-21-2006, 01:01 PM   #1
Gudiomen
 
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Default Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

In my gaming group we're quite fond of the fatigue rules for extra effort, exertion, etc.

We allow feverish defenses and extra effort in attacks (for +2 damage).
Generally we find that this simulates all the fatigue from battle and ignore the fatigue cost per battle for the sake of it.

Anyway...

While Fit does not complicate our lives, Very Fit does. Very Fit characters only spend half fatigue that others do for ordinary, exertion actifities (no psi, magic, etc...). Defenses and attacks all cost 1 FP in combat, how do you rule this?

Does the Very Fit character spend 1 fatigue every two actions of this type?
It seems unfair not to reward the player for a costly advantage, that very clearly extrapolates "double" Fit (the HT bonus).

While we're in the topic, how many actions with extra effort do you allow per turn?
1) Unlimited as long as there's fatigue? (I find this grossly unrealistic, and could lead to the character going from "fresh" to "collapsing" in a single second).
2) One defense and one attack per turn can be "feverish"?
3) Characters may spend only 1 FP per turn for extra effort of any sort...

We're going for "realism", so cinematic options are right out. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

Upon review of the Extra Effort in Combat rules (campaigns, page 357), it is clear that a combatant may use either Flurry of Blows or Mighty Blows as well as Feverish Defense in a single round, so that's one Extra Effort attack and one Extra Effort defense.

That said, I think I would make the ruling that a Very Fit character spends half a fatigue for these actions, which is then rounded down to 0 fatigue, in other words, that in exchange for the costly Very Fit advantage, you get to make Extra Efforts for free.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarische!
That said, I think I would make the ruling that a Very Fit character spends half a fatigue for these actions, which is then rounded down to 0 fatigue, in other words, that in exchange for the costly Very Fit advantage, you get to make Extra Efforts for free.
That would be very abusive. It means that the character effectively gains +2 to damage permanently or is submited to lesser penalties (akin to Weapon Master) for multiple strikes. Also a permanent bonus to 1 defense per turn. While I feel that Very Fit should be rewarded, this is way too much.

Very Fit is not that costly, Fit is +1 to HT for 5 cp, Very Fit is 10 cp for +2 HT and another 5cp for half the fatigue. 15cp is not that much.

Last edited by Gudiomen; 08-21-2006 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gudiomen
That would be very abusive. It means that the character effectively gains +2 to damage permanently or is submited to lesser penalties (akin to Weapon Master) for multiple strikes. Also a permanent bonus to 1 defense per turn. While I feel that Very Fit should be rewarded, this is way too much.
I agree. I'm doubtfull about allowing Very Fit characters using twice as much extra effort as others in combat. Unlimited extra effort is just too good. How about halving the cost [i]per combat round[/]? So if you use it in attack, you get to use it for free in defense? That way you won't be carrying half fatigue points from one round to the next.


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Old 08-21-2006, 02:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

Precisely my dilemma. The lack of a specific reference in the rules makes me think that either GURPS editors overlooked this interpolation of rules or they assumed the answer would be obvious (apparently not obvious...).

I also dislike the half of that used in one turn, because it stimulates the characters to use at least two extra effort actions, since if they don't they're wasting an opportunity.

Easiest way would be just to round down, minimum 1 fp. Wich would result in no discount at all for extra-effort. However, this leaves our extra-fit blokes with one of the main uses of regular FP ruled right out of what seems to be a major part of the advantage...
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

This is simple enough. Charge 1fp every other Extra Effort.
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

You always round FP costs (and most other things that are bad for the characters) up in GURPS. Half of 1 is still 1. You need at least 2 FP for a single action before Very Fit does a thing. The main job of Very Fit is to halve multi-point FP costs for things like exertion in armor.
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

Yup - I liked Barbarische's idea but it omitted the "bad things round up" rule. [well, almost: points up, feats and combat results down]
For Very Fit 1 or 2 FP = 1; 3 or 4 FP = 2. Faster recovery means being back at full fitness inside 1 hour instead of 2.

Uses per turn, for someone without extra attacks:
1 FP for Defence, 2 for Attacks (either 2 Rapid Strikes at -3 with normal damage or 2 Rapid Strikes at -6 with +2 damage).
NB All Out Attack would allow 2xRapid Strike and 1xMighty Blow, but that's still only 3FP per turn.

Extra Attack for a "normal" human can only be used for either Feint or just straight-up attack; I'd assume Mighty Blows was okay for this attack but you're allowed only one set of Rapid Strike. I wasn't sure about using All-Out-Attack but it's all covered on page B54.
Not certain of this bit but it's logical: both attacks must either be All-Out or you can't use All-Out, i.e. you can't have one normal and one All-Out.
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Last edited by jacobmuller; 08-22-2006 at 02:32 PM. Reason: precision
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
You always round FP costs (and most other things that are bad for the characters) up in GURPS. Half of 1 is still 1. You need at least 2 FP for a single action before Very Fit does a thing. The main job of Very Fit is to halve multi-point FP costs for things like exertion in armor.
That doesn't reality check well IMO. One of the main advantages a well-conditioned fighter has is the ability to "turn it on" a bit more without gasing out.
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
That doesn't reality check well IMO. One of the main advantages a well-conditioned fighter has is the ability to "turn it on" a bit more without gasing out.
No, Extra-effort means a physical effort above his capacity or physical condition, whatever they are.
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