Alternate Earths 3, What Worlds? (hypothetical)

[D10]

What if nuclear weapons were never tought possible ?

[Gadget]

There was an old sliders episode where einstein, oppenheimer etc faked thier experimental evidence and conviced the world nuclear weapons wernt possible. The second world war would drag on for a few years though probably not by much. Are nuclear reactors posaable? if so you could easily get dirty bombs. You would probaly get more conventianal wars without a fear of MAD.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Gadget

There was an old sliders episode where einstein, oppenheimer etc faked thier experimental evidence and conviced the world nuclear weapons wernt possible. The second world war would drag on for a few years though probably not by much. Are nuclear reactors posaable? if so you could easily get dirty bombs. You would probaly get more conventianal wars without a fear of MAD.

The only countries to have a nuclear arsenal were mostly the ones big enough to not need them. I doubt, for example, that the U.S. and U.S.S.R. really would have gone to war if neither had them.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

The only countries to have a nuclear arsenal were mostly the ones big enough to not need them. I doubt, for example, that the U.S. and U.S.S.R. really would have gone to war if neither had them.

In OTL and according to Wikipedia (so take it with a grain of salt), nine countries have nuclear arsenals: China, France, Russia, UK, US, India, North Korea, Pakistan, and Israel. (I don't know whether North Korea should be on that list - does one confirmed weapon make for an arsenal?)

I suspect at least the last two on that list aren't big enough to not need nukes...

[nick012000]

I disagree. Without nukes, I think you'd probably see a World War 3 being fought with conventional weapons in the 50's or 60's.

On a slightly different topic, what about this paralell?

[D10]

Just a minor bump regard the Baron of Maua since I couldnt fine any decent link in english.

in case it interests anyone ...

Irineu Evangelista de Souza, Viscount and Later Baron of Mauá, was born of a humble family in Arroio (Rio Grande do Sul State) 1813. When his father died, he left home at the age of 11 to work in commerce in Rio de Janeiro, where he gained great experience and learned English at the establishment of Richard Carruthers, a British subject.

In 1844, he was self-employed in the textile, but his farsightedness led him to the industry were he perceived that the future economic development of the country lay. In 1845 he purchased a modest workshop in the location of Ponta de Areia, Niterói and there installed a foundry and shipyard which by the following year was employing 300 workers. At the height of its activity the Company had 1,0000 workers and constructed ships (72 in all), cranes, windlassed, sugar mills and pipes for the Rio de Janeiro Gas Illumination Company, also founded by him.

The organization of the Amazonas Navigation Company and construction of a submarine cable ship inaugurated by Emperor D.Pedro II were attributed to him. Mauá was also the founder of the second Bank of Brazil, the present one. Formerly, a Bank of the same name had failed in 1829. He founded and was president of the Mauá Bank, MacGregor & Co, which within a short time became the most important banking establishment. However his name definitely entering history with the construction of the first Brazilian Railway, the Mauá, inaugurated on 30th April 1854, Mauá also contributed to the founding of the Recife-São Francisco Railway and the Santos-Jundiaí Railway. He assisted in the institution of the D. Pedro Railway and the construction of the São Francisco Railway in Bahia State, In a way or another, Mauá was involved in any railroad project in Brazil. In 1867 Mauá commercial fortune was the greatest in the country, representing assets calculated at 10 billion dollars.

The notorious financial crisis which hit Brazil from 1864 onward, a reflex of the European situation and caused by bad management of domestic affairs, led many firms, industries and banks into failure and among them the Mauá group. In spite of precautionary measures, the many commitments assumed and the always lack of assistance on the part of government obliged Irineu Evangelista de Souza to apply for a moratorium on his debts in 1875. Considering also, that most of the government idea at that time was against any kind of personal liberalism (Visconde de Itaboraí).

In the illustrious Brazilian's collosal accomplishment, the highest integrity was always taken for granted. His creditors were paid with the proceeds of the sale of his assets and property and even of his personal belongings such as houses, jewels, luxury articles, etc.

Mauá promoted the first surge of Brazilian industry an underwent the contingencies of all his forerunners. He was victimized by the country's culture and heritage. A country that had just left slavery times towards beliefs conception in all-state solutions.
The first Brazilian Railway man died in 22nd October, 1889 in Petrópolis.

Altho he never managed to get back to that huge fortune, he didnt die poor, and always took pride in having paid all his debts.

Brazil is a like a baby giant, and this man has the potential to really create some interesting ATLs

[Cyclone]

On Marx (originally Lenin-7), there was a successful communist revolution in Germany in late 1919 and a much earlier death of Lenin (on August 30 1918). As a result of this and other changes, orthodox Marxism not only won out over Marxism-Leninism, but became the dominant political ideology of the West. It's proven quite successful, and the World Council of Soviets is the largest transnational organization in the world, claiming the membership of every extant nation. By the modern era, almost all countries are soviet republics, even if they are not called that (the United States is still known as the United States, for example). Marx is currently in 2027, which disconcerts Infinity quite a bit - perhaps even more than the fact that Shikaku-Mon is. Marx is top secret for a number of reasons, not least of which is political.

On Bodhisattva-3, it was Buddhism, not Christianity, that supplanted western paganism. Due to a variety of unusual effects this had on philosophy, a Mahayana Gallic explorer in the sixth century discovered the New World, and a scientific revolution soon followed the flow of Mayan gold. Now, in 631 AD, the possibility of a revolution of religious thought in the West nears, as major thinkers reconsider old assumptions about the Buddha and enlightenment.

On Dixe-7, a much less prepared United States collapsed to New England secession in 1812 and again to southern-northern tensions in 1862. Anglo-Americans still made their way across the New World, but their national identity didn't, and a large number of other states lie to the west. Now, in 1912, a war in Europe seems to be gearing up and questions over the allegiance of the myriad New World states are rising as a consequence.

On Lenin-7, Hitler turned to Marxism-Leninism, rather than fascism. His success at building the KPD into the rulers of Germany was rivalled only by his military successes over anti-communist forces in WW2. Now, in 1953, the People's Republic of Germany (under Ernst Thalmann) and the Soviet Union (under Molotov) continue to brutally oppress their own people and preside over a Cold War with the United States they seem liable to win, especially with the success (so far) of leftist movements in Britain.

On Bywater, a growing socialist movement in Japan and an earlier success of the nationalists in China caused the Empire to invade in 1925, which threw it into a war with the United States starting in 1927. With the war putting so much of the United States' domestic industry into military expenditures, the Great Depression became a relative hiccup. Post-war Japan elected the Japan Socialist Party in 1933, after their defeat, and it is now a successful social democracy. However, thanks to the failure of the United States to learn the lessons of the Homeline Great Depression, another one began in 1940, and seems ready to lead to a devastating war, just like in Homeline.

[D10]

Originally Posted by Cyclone

On Marx (originally Lenin-7), there was a successful communist revolution in Germany in late 1919 and a much earlier death of Lenin (on August 30 1918). As a result of this and other changes, orthodox Marxism not only won out over Marxism-Leninism, but became the dominant political ideology of the West. It's proven quite successful, and the World Council of Soviets is the largest transnational organization in the world, claiming the membership of every extant nation. By the modern era, almost all countries are soviet republics, even if they are not called that (the United States is still known as the United States, for example). Marx is currently in 2027, which disconcerts Infinity quite a bit - perhaps even more than the fact that Shikaku-Mon is. Marx is top secret for a number of reasons, not least of which is political.

On Bodhisattva-3, it was Buddhism, not Christianity, that supplanted western paganism. Due to a variety of unusual effects this had on philosophy, a Mahayana Gallic explorer in the sixth century discovered the New World, and a scientific revolution soon followed the flow of Mayan gold. Now, in 631 AD, the possibility of a revolution of religious thought in the West nears, as major thinkers reconsider old assumptions about the Buddha and enlightenment.

On Dixe-7, a much less prepared United States collapsed to New England secession in 1812 and again to southern-northern tensions in 1862. Anglo-Americans still made their way across the New World, but their national identity didn't, and a large number of other states lie to the west. Now, in 1912, a war in Europe seems to be gearing up and questions over the allegiance of the myriad New World states are rising as a consequence.

On Lenin-7, Hitler turned to Marxism-Leninism, rather than fascism. His success at building the KPD into the rulers of Germany was rivalled only by his military successes over anti-communist forces in WW2. Now, in 1953, the People's Republic of Germany (under Ernst Thalmann) and the Soviet Union (under Molotov) continue to brutally oppress their own people and preside over a Cold War with the United States they seem liable to win, especially with the success (so far) of leftist movements in Britain.

On Bywater, a growing socialist movement in Japan and an earlier success of the nationalists in China caused the Empire to invade in 1925, which threw it into a war with the United States starting in 1927. With the war putting so much of the United States' domestic industry into military expenditures, the Great Depression became a relative hiccup. Post-war Japan elected the Japan Socialist Party in 1933, after their defeat, and it is now a successful social democracy. However, thanks to the failure of the United States to learn the lessons of the Homeline Great Depression, another one began in 1940, and seems ready to lead to a devastating war, just like in Homeline.

I really like all of them, specially Bywater.

Anyone ever thought what would happen if Kublai sucessfully invaded Japan ?

[Spudzill]

Originally Posted by Randyman

You mean Burroughs-6 (Lands out of Time)?

What were Burroughs 1-5?

[Voltron64]

Originally Posted by D10

I really like all of them, specially Bywater.

Anyone ever thought what would happen if Kublai sucessfully invaded Japan ?

I suppose we would get Bushido-following Mongols, and if you combine that with their conquest of the Middle East, you get a Bushido-following Mongol horde on a jihad!

Really, it starts looking like the cover of an Iron Maiden album.