Scaling Supers - pricing of Innate Attack and DR

[naloth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I will grant that the comics show us effects being multiplied all the time. But I don't think we see exponentially greater effects of these particular sorts.

I disagree. You can't multiply Sue's effort and get up the (sort of exponential) damage the Thing does, yet she regularly can stop him as easily as he punches for the same effort.

Having Force Fields that can stop a super strong character are entirely in genre; however, DR is more expensive than the ability to do the damage. Multiplying that by the enhancements to turn it into a force field is prohibitively expensive. A Sue Storm built on the same budget as the Thing ends up only being able to stop bullets unless you introduce a house rule.

I don't see why some form of Super Effort wasn't applied to DR. We often see exponential efforts that far exceeds what you can do by purchasing the power outright, using a Power Block, or boosting it with any of the extra effort rules. I've experimented with it as a house rule for some time without any issues.

[TJA]

The more i read in this topic and go back to the book to re-read things, the more i love GURPS Supers :)
(Beside the few things that could be added :D

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by naloth

I don't see why some form of Super Effort wasn't applied to DR. We often see exponential efforts that far exceeds what you can do by purchasing the power outright, using a Power Block, or boosting it with any of the extra effort rules. I've experimented with it as a house rule for some time without any issues.

I thought about writing up a rule for applying it specifically to Force Field versions of DR. But it was a little complex to explain, it would have taken up more space in an already crammed book, and, you know, it's really easy enough to figure it out if you want it. If it fits your conception of how supers ought to work, you should just house rule it.

Bill Stoddard

[TJA]

But maybe we can talk about how this house rules should look like?
Just to make it as compatible with the other rules as possible ...

Lifting ST with Super Effort costs +400%, so 15p per Level.
ST with Super Effort costs +300%, so 40p per Level.

...

Hmm.

I just realize, that i do not fully understand the Super Abilities table on p146.
It seems to cost 25p for the first level of ST with Super Effort (going from 50p to 75p in the first two lines).

:-O

Is the "cost" column NOT the cost of ST or DamRed?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I thought about writing up a rule for applying it specifically to Force Field versions of DR. But it was a little complex to explain, it would have taken up more space in an already crammed book, and, you know, it's really easy enough to figure it out if you want it. If it fits your conception of how supers ought to work, you should just house rule it.

Bill Stoddard

So is there a chance of another in that line?
Power ups, Pyramid article, anything?
Heck I can see a Supers version of the Action or DF line really.
Supers: Organizations with expanded rules and examples on having them as patrons or enimies, headquarters, bases, etc
Supers: Bricks with examples and options for various types of bricks.
etc, most of the genre archetypes could be a mix if optional rules and design switches but also examples that help to show different ways of handling them with existing rules. Also they would be like monster manuals as well as rulebooks. Made for a generic setting so they could fit into IST or someones custom campaign.

And also certain books for sub genres like Silver Age or Cosmic or Oppressed heroes (like Mutants).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by TJA

Lifting ST with Super Effort costs +400%, so 15p per Level.
ST with Super Effort costs +300%, so 40p per Level.


I just realize, that i do not fully understand the Super Abilities table on p146.
It seems to cost 25p for the first level of ST with Super Effort (going from 50p to 75p in the first two lines).

Is the "cost" column NOT the cost of ST or DamRed?

Half right. It is the cost of Damage Reduction, and the head "Damage Reduction" really should be centered above "Factor" and "Cost". It is not the cost of ST in any form. You have the cost of ST right: 40 points/level of ST (Super-Effort).

The modifier for Striking ST is implicitly +400%, so I would use that for DR. That is, if you took straight DR with Super-Effort, it would cost 25/level, or 35/level if you also took Force Field. With that progression, a super force field breaks even at 9/70 and takes off after that.

Bill Stoddard

[TJA]

Thanx for the explanation - i used the table wrongly before!!!


Anyway, let´s try to calculate:

Damage Resistance costs 5p while DR (Force Field) costs 6p per Level.
Innate Attacks cost about 5p per Level, but create damage 3.5 times as high.

Do make DR scale somewhat with IA, DR 50000 could cost about the same as IA 15000.

And to be compatible with the I/D/C/M Scales, both of them should cost about as much as DamRed 10000 (600 points) or ST 100000 (Level +28, 1120 points).

Right?

[TJA]

For IA, the following table could be valid, making IA 15000 a little bit less expensive than ST +100000 (1120p):

Innate Attack		
Level	damage	points
1	3,5	5
1,5	5,25	7,5
2	7	10
3	10,5	15
5	17,5	25
7	24,5	35
10	35	50
15	52,5	75
20	70	100
30	105	150
50	175	200
70	245	250
100	350	300
150	525	350
200	700	400
300	1050	450
500	1750	500
700	2450	550
1000	3500	600
1500	5250	650
2000	7000	700
3000	10500	750
5000	17500	800
7000	24500	850
10000	35000	900
15000	52500	950

So, getting more bang for the buck starts after level 30.

How´s that?

Edit: I just saw, that this fits my first try above :)
But this time, i calculated - the first time, i just tried a shot ...

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Heck I can see a Supers version of the Action or DF line really.
Supers: Organizations with expanded rules and examples on having them as patrons or enimies, headquarters, bases, etc
Supers: Bricks with examples and options for various types of bricks.

I don't think there's necessarily anything to prevent it, and in fact I've talked about projects of that general sort, but my upcoming projects look to be something different. But there's nothing to stop other people from submitting proposals.

Bill Stoddard

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by TJA

But maybe we can talk about how this house rules should look like?
Just to make it as compatible with the other rules as possible ...

Lifting ST with Super Effort costs +400%, so 15p per Level.
ST with Super Effort costs +300%, so 40p per Level.

If were going to do that lets try and get all of them listed.

Telekinesis Super Effort +400%; Super Damage +900%
Super Effort for Warp; Applied to Will or Lifting ST +400%
Compartmentalized Mind has Massively Parallel +20%
Control Super Effort +400%
Duplication Multiplication +20%
Binding Super Binding +400%

So for most its 400%, a few much cheaper and only ST/TK 900% for the damage boost