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Old 03-18-2021, 01:03 PM   #11
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: A minor comment about summoned bats

Thanks.

Here are some additional characters so I can post this.
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Old 03-18-2021, 10:24 PM   #12
Anomylous
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: A minor comment about summoned bats

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I'd have a bit of trouble seeing how a slinker could turn a doorknob, given its location on the door, but maybe I'm unimaginative.

However, summoning a slinker is a great idea. The ability to abscond with stuff would be very useful.

ETA: The rules explicitly mention that slinkers can be trained to open doors or windows (ITL 94), so a summoned one surely could. I've only used slinkers once, but I feel like they're a useful nuisance. How do y'all use 'em? What sorts of items do they swipe? I imagine they go for purses, having learned they contain good stuff, but how many is the right number to go after a party of four?
Aren't doorknobs a relatively recent innovation? I'd expect you'd see a lot more sliding latches etc. on Cidri. And I know a squirrel, small cat, or monkey would have no trouble leaping to doorknob height, so I'd assume a slinker could, as well.

As for how many is the right number to go after a party of four... does it really matter? I don't think they'd be a combat challenge. I'd have them sneak up at night, while everyone's asleep, and raid the packs for food and shiny objects. Roll vs. IQ to wake up and notice you're being robbed. The slinkers will run away at the first sign of a threat, but one of them already has your MacGuffin firmly clamped in its little jaws...

Alternatively, when you get back to town, somebody at the tavern has a trained pet slinker and works the rooms at night. After all, few gold coins here and there quickly add up to a decent income.

Edit: I'm not surprised that bats would be capable of sneaking through tiny openings. Some species are extremely nimble little bastards. Case study: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5KrTtTVoy8 (I couldn't find much good footage of a Mexican free-tail crawling, but I think this video gets the point across.)

Last edited by Anomylous; 03-18-2021 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 03-19-2021, 07:17 AM   #13
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: A minor comment about summoned bats

Good points about door handles of a lever sort.

Parties in the wilderness surely leave at least one guard on duty. That guard will wake others, though it will take them time to stand and arm. I have trouble coming up with an effective strategy and target for the slinkers. Those who sleep with a dagger adjacent can lose their weapon, but most valuables will be reasonably stowed out of sight.

Similarly, a slinker in the tavern will be noticeable and will attract attention. This makes him a lousy pickpocket in my mind.

So, you can see my problem. A reasonably alert and cautious party must have a good chance to notice a slinker and they can be dispatched easily. Now, that's only true if you catch them before or as they're grabbing an item. They're fast and in the wilderness once they have their item, they're effectively gone.

This is why I thought a decent number of slinkers would offset their limitations. If there are six slinkers and a party of four, some of whom must stand and ready weapons, then something will be stolen. Again, since my PCs don't wander around with tiaras, I guess the haul will be limited to daggers, purses and perhaps food. Even if there is a shiny MacGuffin, either the slinkers steal it and then it's effectively just gone or the MacGuffin is stored quite safely.
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Old 03-19-2021, 03:44 PM   #14
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: A minor comment about summoned bats

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Good points about door handles of a lever sort.

Parties in the wilderness surely leave at least one guard on duty. That guard will wake others, though it will take them time to stand and arm. I have trouble coming up with an effective strategy and target for the slinkers. Those who sleep with a dagger adjacent can lose their weapon, but most valuables will be reasonably stowed out of sight.

Similarly, a slinker in the tavern will be noticeable and will attract attention. This makes him a lousy pickpocket in my mind.

So, you can see my problem. A reasonably alert and cautious party must have a good chance to notice a slinker and they can be dispatched easily. Now, that's only true if you catch them before or as they're grabbing an item. They're fast and in the wilderness once they have their item, they're effectively gone.

This is why I thought a decent number of slinkers would offset their limitations. If there are six slinkers and a party of four, some of whom must stand and ready weapons, then something will be stolen. Again, since my PCs don't wander around with tiaras, I guess the haul will be limited to daggers, purses and perhaps food. Even if there is a shiny MacGuffin, either the slinkers steal it and then it's effectively just gone or the MacGuffin is stored quite safely.
A wizard can use observational talents "through the eyes" of an illusion (page 139). As GM, I'd allow a wizard with a Pickpocket, Silent Movement, Stealth, etc. talent to use it through an illusion or summoned creature, provided the wizard takes no action on the same turn. So at my table, at any rate, a summoned slinker could potentially pick a pocket in a tavern (and probably more effectively than a thief, due to its size).
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Old 10-29-2021, 07:57 AM   #15
phiwum
 
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Location: Boston area
Default Uses for scouts in combat

Last night, a wizard sent a bat to scout out the situation before attacking. The bat was still active when the fight began, so he wanted to use the bat to distract an enemy, getting in his face and flapping about and whatnot.

At the time, I thought it was reasonable to give a penalty to the harried enemy, maybe DX -2, but I'm rethinking that now[1]. Certainly, the -2 penalty is too much, since Clumsiness has the same effect at a cost of 1 ST for 3 turns, so a Scout would be a little over 3 times more cost efficient, although a Scout could be killed but at a penalty of DX -4 to hit.

What do y'all think about combat uses for Scouts? I tend to think they should be able to attack, but I don't think it makes sense to give a bat distraction abilities on reconsideration. Thematically, it seems appropriate, I guess. A bat flying into your face would be a hassle.

Thanks for any thoughts you got.

[1] As it happens, my decision at the time didn't matter, since the PCs retreated before the plan could have any effect.
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Old 10-29-2021, 08:41 AM   #16
hcobb
 
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Default Re: A minor comment about summoned bats

What's the distraction for the casting wizard of being thrust into someone's face like that?
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Old 10-29-2021, 10:06 AM   #17
Skarg
 
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Default Re: A minor comment about summoned bats

All clever tricks might (or might not) work once, but they tend to have counters or else they'd be standard tactics.

A normal bat doesn't cause DX penalties. A normal bat doesn't hover in someone's face. A bat hovering in someone's face might be easier to swat and kill than a bat not hovering in someone's face. I'd tend to say a bat hovering in someone's face could be swatted and killed by making just a 3/DX roll, or maybe even an easier roll, especially if they had, for example, a shield to do it with, because the space in front of one's own face is very easy to hit.

Another line of thought I have seen other GMs use, is that Summon Scout is not supposed to summon a combatant, so maybe those summons can be told to go places, but not to make attacks or do things a visiting animal wouldn't do.
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Old 10-29-2021, 12:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: A minor comment about summoned bats

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A normal bat doesn't cause DX penalties. A normal bat doesn't hover in someone's face. A bat hovering in someone's face might be easier to swat and kill than a bat not hovering in someone's face. I'd tend to say a bat hovering in someone's face could be swatted and killed by making just a 3/DX roll, or maybe even an easier roll, especially if they had, for example, a shield to do it with, because the space in front of one's own face is very easy to hit.

Another line of thought I have seen other GMs use, is that Summon Scout is not supposed to summon a combatant, so maybe those summons can be told to go places, but not to make attacks or do things a visiting animal wouldn't do.
I'll second Skarg's comments. I don't think a bat would be any more of a distraction than incoming arrows, spells, spear thrusts, and ravening wolves, none of which impose DX penalties for simply being there.
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