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Old 06-07-2016, 03:12 AM   #31
Mailanka
 
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
Edit : Character p274 for fine quality for TL7 melee weapons (it apply to melee weapons and arrows/bolts only, not the bow/crossbows as written. I misremenbered extending it to ranged muscle-powered weapons. Still, it make sense to extend it).
It doesn't make sense to extend fine (+1 damage) to bows because it has to do with the quality of your edge, and bows cannot improve the quality of their arrows' edge.

Fine (Accurate) might make sense, though!
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:06 AM   #32
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
It doesn't make sense to extend fine (+1 damage) to bows because it has to do with the quality of your edge, and bows cannot improve the quality of their arrows' edge.

Fine (Accurate) might make sense, though!
Use Fine (Accurate) for Bows and Fine (Damage) for arrows?

Then again, target-point arrows are probably closer to pi or pi+ rather than imp, due to their shape; you're commonly not using broadheads at the range so that it's easier to pull the arrow out of the target. Fine (Damage) would be more appropriate for broadhead arrows.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:06 AM   #33
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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It's always struck me as weird that this is the case and yet the iconic character to have Weapon Master in the Basic Set has Weapon Master (Bow) instead of Weapon Master (Composite Bow)/(Longbow)/(Regular Bow) (not one of which she could wield with her ST 9) or Weapon Master (Short Bow).
You're not limited to a single weapon , but you can also chose weapon groups. such as Bows, Knightly Weapons, Ninja weapons etc.
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:18 AM   #34
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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I am pretty sure you can choose by weapon or skill. A WM katana gain benefits whatever skills he use his katana with, a WM Two-handed sword with whatever weapon when using that skil.
In 3e it was definitely by Skill but in 4e it's supposed to be by weapon but you're supposed to use your common sense i.e. WM(Katana) includes bokken and even shinai and oh yeah, Korean gum and anything else that's effectively if not literally a katana.

I liked the 3e rule better. Katan-users had to pay 5 pts more but weren't really boggled by non-Japanese broadswords and two-handed swords.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:00 PM   #35
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
You're not limited to a single weapon , but you can also chose weapon groups. such as Bows, Knightly Weapons, Ninja weapons etc.
But a weapon group isn't a [20] Weapon Master, it's [30] through [40] depending on breadth.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:08 PM   #36
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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But a weapon group isn't a [20] Weapon Master, it's [30] through [40] depending on breadth.
The closest explantation I got to that, is Weapon Master (Sabre)[20] includes all the sword with sabre in their name including the calvary sabre and fencing sabre. As well
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:59 PM   #37
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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The closest explantation I got to that, is Weapon Master (Sabre)[20] includes all the sword with sabre in their name including the calvary sabre and fencing sabre. As well
Pretty sure that just gives you fencing sabre and not cavalry sabre, actually. Likewise Weapon Master (Katana) not giving late katana, bokken, shinai, or no-dachi.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:52 PM   #38
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Likewise Weapon Master (Katana) not giving late katana, bokken, shinai, or no-dachi.

According to Kromm, WM:Katana would give you everything on that list unless your "no-dachi" is big enough to be effectively a Greatsword (which I'd call an O-dachi)..

The "Katana" in Basic is already basically a no-dachi by most measurements. What you usually find on the net under that name is the late Katana from MA.
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
According to Kromm, WM:Katana would give you everything on that list unless your "no-dachi" is big enough to be effectively a Greatsword (which I'd call an O-dachi).
That seems to contradict literally every "clarification" I've seen of the Advantage in the past decade. Do you have a link to that Krommquote?

Because this is the way I used to interpret the advantage but kept being told on the forums that it was wrong, that Weapon Master (Single Weapon) gives you Weapon Master benefits for a single distinct build of weapon under all skills that can be used to wield it, not for reasonably similar weapons (which would call for a group Weapon Master of appropriate breadth).
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:12 PM   #40
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by simply Nathan View Post
That seems to contradict literally every "clarification" I've seen of the Advantage in the past decade. Do you have a link to that Krommquote?

Because this is the way I used to interpret the advantage but kept being told on the forums that it was wrong, that Weapon Master (Single Weapon) gives you Weapon Master benefits for a single distinct build of weapon under all skills that can be used to wield it, not for reasonably similar weapons (which would call for a group Weapon Master of appropriate breadth).

lets see there is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I'll echo what Peter and those who inspired him have already said. Weapon table entries are strictly for user convenience. The GM needs to exercise a bit of judgment and decide what is and isn't basically the same weapon. Of course making a broadsword pointy doesn't suddenly invalidate your WM (Broadsword), and of course WM (Katana) works with wooden as well as metal katanas (and ceramic ones, and hyperdense ones, and . . .). WM is a cinematic ability that doesn't play well with legalistic, pedantic readings. Go with spirit, not letter!
or this:

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
To be honest, I'd be fine with minor variations in size, number of edges, and so on as long as the basic morphology and balance remained similar. I don't think it would break anything to read Weapon Master (Knives) [20] as encompassing small, large, and long knives, and anything with "knife" in the name, or to let Weapon Master (Rapiers) [20] cover anything with "rapier" in the name. However, Weapon Master (Anything used with Knife skill) [30] includes a lot of exotica, like katars and kukris, while Weapon Master (All fencing weapons) [30] folds in non-rapier fencing blades. Both are still smaller than Weapon Master (All swords) [35], which would include anything you'd identify as a knife, sword, or fencing weapon.
and this:

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
What I said here still applies. The essential bit: Minor variations in size, number of edges, and so on don't matter. Weapon Master (Foo) encompasses anything with "foo" in the name. So Weapon Master (Broadsword) includes anything named "broadsword" for just 20 points. As a GM, I'd also include any balanced, Reach 1 weapon capable of swing cutting damage that's covered by the Broadsword skill: cavalry saber, backsword, etc.

And yes, for 20 points, you can have Weapon Master (Bow) that covers the longbow, regular bow, short bow, and composite bow. All are two-handed missile weapons with "bow" in their name, made from strung, curved staves and normally shooting arrows for impaling damage.
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Last edited by roguebfl; 06-07-2016 at 08:16 PM.
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