Dungeon Fantasy RPG template formatting

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I suspect that authors would be asked to handle that as a table.

I've seen the original Word documents. It's a bunch of two-column tables.

Originally Posted by lachimba

Which is a lot more complex and harder to read than a list.

Also brings the joy of tab/space checks.

Not for the author. I compose tables as tables, convert to text, and apply styles just before submitting. After that, it's Steven and Nikki's problem, and they can handle it.

Speaking from the author side of things, I'd prefer working with the new format, should that come to pass. The tables spread things out and make it easier to read than the dense-pack HANG blocks.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I've seen the original Word documents. It's a bunch of two-column tables.

Ouch. That means each multi-line entry is positioned in separate cells manually, and any mistake means shifting every entry below it manually as well. If the columns read top to bottom and then left to right, it also means counting how many entries you have so you know when to switch to the second column.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Ouch. That means each multi-line entry is positioned in separate cells manually, and any mistake means shifting every entry below it manually as well. If the columns read top to bottom and then left to right, it also means counting how many entries you have so you know when to switch to the second column.

Its a lot easier than that if you follow the GURPS Style Guide.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I've seen the original Word documents. It's a bunch of two-column tables.
.

Two columns aren't so bad to check.

[philosophyguy]

Originally Posted by Pseudonym

I think if they needed to remove one number or the other between the absolute and relative skill level, it would have been more informative to say:
Broadsword-DX+2[8]
than
Broadsword-14[8]

Especially true for skills that float to other attributes often.

I've been thinking about this for a while because it's challenging when you start adding in bonuses from advantages. For instance, the Bard profession has the Acting Skill and the option for the Born Entertainer advantage. So, a bard with IQ 14 and 2 points in Acting will have Acting (IQ+0) 14 [2], which can be accurately abbreviated as Acting-IQ+0 [2]. But, when the bard takes a level of Born Entertainer, they have Acting 15, even though there are still only 2 points in that skill.

I see a couple of ways to handle this notation for simplified template formats:

1) Notate skill levels and advantage bonuses separately. For instance, Acting (IQ+0+1) [2]. It's clear that the base skill level has a contribution from both the skill points and an advantage. It's not the prettiest, but it works.

2) Notate the final relative skill level only. In this case, it would be Acting (IQ+1) [2]. There's no information lost; the player still knows that they have put two points into the skill, so the next skill advancement requires an additional 2 points (even though IQ+1 would normally entail a 4 point jump to the next level of IQ+2). On the flip side, the disconnect between the relative skill level and the point cost could be confusing for new players, and would be an additional source of error for GMs to check when verifying character sheets.

3) Use superscripts. The bard would have Acting (IQ+1)* [2], with a footnote (*Includes +1 from Born Entertainer). The templates already do this with the advantages built into professions, but it gets messy when there are lots of advantages involved because it's necessary to use a lot of different superscript characters, and it requires more space because the footnotes each require an additional line.

I'm leaning towards option 2 as my preference but I'm curious what others think.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

(This format is undoubtedly much easier in desktop publishing software.)

It's been a while since I used any publishing software (probably high school newspaper), but it gives you understandably superior page layout options.

[Nemoricus]

The choice to omit relative skill level and points invested from the skill lines is, while understandable, a bit of a hassle when it comes time to improve skill levels, whether directly or from attribute increases.

I have more of an issue with the choice of red for the skill section. Red on white isn't the best for visibility, and the skill section is already noticeably off-set from the rest of the template.

Other than those, I think they look pretty good. Much more readable overall!

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Nemoricus

I have more of an issue with the choice of red for the skill section. Red on white isn't the best for visibility, and the skill section is already noticeably off-set from the rest of the template.

The colour problem lept out at me, too.

I think it's the same sort of brownish-orange-y spoiled fruit colour as the headers for this section - but the headers are mottled with a dark grey, while the text is the pure dirty orange thing. This makes the text lighter, and reduces contrast against the background. A dark brown (which is "darker orange" by a better name) or maroon (dark red) would have been fine.

From my understanding of red-green colourblindness the orange-y colour they went with shouldn't be exceptionally harder to read? Since you don't actually have to distinguish between two colours the exact hue shouldn't matter as much as the overall contrast with the background even if you have red-green or blue-yellow colourblindness. I think. I'm not 100% sure on this point.

Aside: I don't have some sort of sensible colourblindness, but for some reason I can't find a bright red thing in amongst green stuff. So I just don't recommend contrasting those things ever. Red means stop, green means go? Terrible idea.

[adm]

Interestingly enough, I have red/orange color blindness. To me they look great, a nice brown on white, easily read.

[trooper6]

I was introducing GURPS to someone in an online format...just by describing things...then that person (a complete newbie to GURPS) made a bit of an example character for me to look at. Knowing that skills can float to other attributes, this is how he listed his skills:

Guns, +2 [4]

I thought that was really elegant, and emphasized the possibility of floating.