Several Questions on Mail Armor

[Rasna]

1) How do you classify mail armor with “6-in-1” and “8-in-2” patterns, according to GURPS rules?

2) How do you classify this? (Austria, XVI century, if I'm not wrong):
http://www.hosting.universalsite.org...C_58EFB198.jpg

3) How do you classify Mail and Plates with horn plates instead of metal ones?
http://www.hosting.universalsite.org...D_58EFB29A.jpg

4) Would it be possible to have some degree of variation in weight and thickness of Mail and Plates armour? My proposal:
- Mail and Plates, Light: DR 4 (DR 3 vs crushing), 15 lbs, Don 20
- Mail and Plates, Heavy: DR 6 (DR 5 vs crushing), 25 lbs, Don 30

5) If I'm not wrong, historically, hauberks with rings of homogeneous size and thickness were rare. Most surviving examples show denser weave of mail in some areas (front of the chest, shoulders, neck) and lighter weave of mail in others (back, extremities). Taking a hauberk with Heavy Mail sleeves, would it be plausible or unlikely (in this case, with Fine Mail for forearms, thighs and knees)?

[RyanW]

I would just call 6-in-1 a possible justification for going with heavy mail instead of light. You're using more rings, but you probably have to use thinner and/or larger rings to accommodate it.

8-in-2 is, as best I can tell, a modern decorative thing. I can't imagine it being easy to rivet or weld the doubled rings. If you can, or want to handwave it, just call it jousting mail.

[hal]

As a suggestion, I would use different forms of a mail on different locations, heavy mail on the torso, light mail in the arms, or possibly have heavy mail on the front torso, light mail in the back.

David Pulver's armor rules in three separate Pryamid articles could be used to customize mail armor that is heavier for protection of vitals and lighter for other areas. I'll play with the rules to see what can be done later tonight.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by hal

As a suggestion, I would use different forms of a mail on different locations, heavy mail on the torso, light mail in the arms, or possibly have heavy mail on the front torso, light mail in the back.

David Pulver's armor rules in three separate Pryamid articles could be used to customize mail armor that is heavier for protection of vitals and lighter for other areas. I'll play with the rules to see what can be done later tonight.

...Or Low Tech could do so perfectly well on its own.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rasna

1) How do you classify mail armor with “6-in-1” and “8-in-2” patterns, according to GURPS rules?

As mail. DR is mostly an issue of areal density and manufacturing quality; different patterns will have different areal densities at a given wire gauge, but given that you can select wire gauges, this doesn't matter much.

Originally Posted by Rasna

3) How do you classify Mail and Plates with horn plates instead of metal ones?

As decorative, most likely.

Originally Posted by Rasna

4) Would it be possible to have some degree of variation in weight and thickness of Mail and Plates armour?

Presumably, though I wouldn't increase DR beyond 5. I'd probably say 'mail and plates: +2 lb to any mail; DR is at -1 instead of -2 vs crushing'.

[Railstar]

Originally Posted by Rasna

1) How do you classify mail armor with “6-in-1” and “8-in-2” patterns, according to GURPS rules?

2) How do you classify this? (Austria, XVI century, if I'm not wrong):
http://www.hosting.universalsite.org...C_58EFB198.jpg

3) How do you classify Mail and Plates with horn plates instead of metal ones?
http://www.hosting.universalsite.org...D_58EFB29A.jpg

4) Would it be possible to have some degree of variation in weight and thickness of Mail and Plates armour? My proposal:
- Mail and Plates, Light: DR 4 (DR 3 vs crushing), 15 lbs, Don 20
- Mail and Plates, Heavy: DR 6 (DR 5 vs crushing), 25 lbs, Don 30

5) If I'm not wrong, historically, hauberks with rings of homogeneous size and thickness were rare. Most surviving examples show denser weave of mail in some areas (front of the chest, shoulders, neck) and lighter weave of mail in others (back, extremities). Taking a hauberk with Heavy Mail sleeves, would it be plausible or unlikely (in this case, with Fine Mail for forearms, thighs and knees)?

1 - I would generally classify those as variations on heavy mail or possibly jousting mail, maybe even fine mail. The general idea is whether there is more metal from thicker rings or just more rings amounts to more or less the same thing.

2 - It reminds me of a brigandine I saw at the Royal Armouries, that one had mail on the shoulders too (presumably to allow flexibility while still protecting those areas). Whether I'd treat the set as overall brigandine (with built-in arming doublet to simulate the mail patches?) or overall mail-and-plates depends how much in the way of mail sections there are.

3 - First, that is beautiful. In-game I'd treat something like that as Cheap + Ornate.

4 - I kind of assume the default Mail & Plates is the heavy version. I vaguely remember a Light Mail & Plates being suggested on these forums in the past, to represent certain tatami-do armours, at DR 3 (2 vs crushing), 10 lbs, I don't remember the don time although I'd probably keep it the same.

5 - I've heard something similar on ScholaGladiatoria. I would treat Heavy Mail sleeves as plausible (depending on area, such as kataphractoi sets of mail), but uncommon. I would have most sets of mail use Fine Mail for the sleeves, but I wouldn't make it difficult for someone who wanted Heavy Mail sleeves.

[Rasna]

Thanks for your opinions.

1) So basically it doesn't need a separate voice; it may be Heavy Mail or Jousting Mail, depending the size/thickness of rings and the rigidity of weave.

2) Yes, it resemble a brigandine but it doesn't seem rigid as a true brigandine, so I would see this as "Mail and Plates" or even as "Scale Mail" (signed in Loadouts - Low Tech Armor: DR 5* / DR 3* vs crushing, 16 lbs, $ 2000)

3) I agree with Railstar. The "Cheap" option seems reasonable.

4) I partially agree with Anthony. This solution is good for fitting lighter Mail and Plates. I've seen some Persian and Indian mail an plates armor that may have DR 6 (very large plates, probably thicker than small plates of other mail and plates hauberks).

5) Yep. If heavy mail sleeves are possible, then it's fine.