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Old 10-13-2018, 04:51 AM   #11
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: Animals and fire

Right. If the two fighters are right next to each other - in adjacent hexes - then the bear cannot shift and remain adjacent to both fighters. The issue is not remaining engaged, but fulfilling the requirement not to move out of contact with both figures - which means the bear must remain in the fire hex during movement and use the disengage option.
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Last edited by Helborn; 10-13-2018 at 04:53 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: Animals and fire

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Because the rules for initiating HTH are weird. It looks like the intent of the conditions is that a a target that is free to maneuver cannot be engaged in HTH (since you can engage someone with his back to a wall), but rather than something like "if you move into an opponent's hex and none of these conditions apply, the figure is displaced one hex away in a direction of its choice", the rules just forbid entering the hex. Which is much simpler, of course.
Why should the TARGET be displaced rather, than as the rules currently say, the INITIATOR returns to their last hex on a 5 or 6? After all you're trying to move in on someone with a weapon on their hand (most of the time). Even with conditions (a)-(d) fulfilled there is a 1/3 chance of the HTH attempt failing. It is not easy to grapple an opponent unless the opponent is limited in their ability to respond or is willing to grapple.

The movie and TV show scenes with the flying leap to engage in HTH are nicely staged but easily avoided in real life. Granted, given enough momentum, the initiator winds up in the hex past the opponent rather than back in the initiating hex, but given the mechanics of being engaged, the rules are a playable solution. The other solution would be to allow a free strike with a weapon or UC skill with double or triple damage automatically - which is the real world result from a blind rush, which is what I am discussing. You do a blind rush and the usual result with a skilled opponent is being knocked on the head or kicked in the privates as you go past (or the sword or ax eviscerates you).

A careful advance and attempt at HTH, if declined, would result in the initiator back in their original hex.
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:39 AM   #13
The Wyzard
 
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Default Re: Animals and fire

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Originally Posted by ecz View Post
uhmm this has been discussed in this forum recently.

it seems that literally rules allow a figure to "disengage" by a shift if it remains "adjacent to all enemies that ingages it" (i.e. he can shift out of the enemy front hexes remaining adjacent).

adjacent is not the same of engaged
Well, you want that so two characters can try to circle around a single enemy figure they're engaged with.

Which is pretty tough on the lone guy, admittedly.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: Animals and fire

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Well, you want that so two characters can try to circle around a single enemy figure they're engaged with.

Which is pretty tough on the lone guy, admittedly.
I do not "want" anything.
I try to read and understand the rules as written.
I could comment that it makes sense and is the reason because initiative is so important, but everyone is free to house rule differently.
In my opinion is necessary that fighters on the same side must cooperate to avoid this obvious lethal manouvre with a proper tactic and staying close.

By the way, in a true combat, I would not be too happy fo face alone TWO enemies at once for this reason
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Animals and fire

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Why should the TARGET be displaced rather, than as the rules currently say, the INITIATOR returns to their last hex on a 5 or 6?
If the target refuses to engage in HTH, he should be displaced, because that's logically how avoid engagement without any particular contest. If he's willing to engage in HTH, fine.
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Old 10-13-2018, 01:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Animals and fire

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I do not "want" anything.
Must make it hard to order off a menu.
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