Ritual Magic (4e) in GURPS Technomancer

[David L Pulver]

I'm fine if anyone wants to use the 4e ritual magic rules with Technomancer. to reference an earlier tradition of magic... that wasn't my intent, but it could work if done with proper care.

The Designer Notes pretty much indicate my original intent. Merlin is a quite mechanistic world, and I needed a solid system in order to make the job of extrapolation interesting.

The ritual magic type systems tend to produce effects that are somewhat subjective and GM derived. Given the huge number of mages in the setting and the need for society to survive in a functional non-chaotic form in order to retain the "close parallel" concept, a system where effects and countermeasures were limited and predictable, as in a limited GURPS Magic spell list, seemed better. It ensured that The Authorities (governments, banks, the rich, the military, police, etc.) could have reliable protections for their power, money, and intelligence that worked in a predictable fashion. In contrast, the somewhat more chaotic, open system (in terms of effects) that appears in Voodoo works well with that game's theme of fighting the man and revolution...

Technomancer is in some ways a deeply conservative setting, a metaphor for the post-war globalized rise of American power with the spell replacing the a-bomb and computer - it's really the 1940-50s "mathematical magic" approach you saw in stories by Heinlein, Anderson, De Camp, etc., a direct opposite to the more realistic (in terms of modern occultism) sort of magic you get in the ritual magic systems, in most modern treatments of fantasy, or in games like Mage.

In regard to the idea of how the in-setting use of early Voodoo, ceremonial magic, and other real world systems "worked" my simple assumption was that they were the same magic system as everything else, but the ritual elements just represent added "unscientific" parts of the spells and rituals that served merely to focus the mage's mental state, but that "modern scientific" magic as developed in the 50s and 60s pruned away that sort of thing to get to the basics. If it were a Heinlein or whatever novel I am sure there would be much nattering by the characters about the importance of studying math and physics to get spells right, but I did not opt to go that far. In GURPS terms an early practitioner is simply someone with a set of specific beliefs (and mental or social traits) and, uh, somewhat lower skill, the later resulting increasing casting time and requiring extra gestures, materials, etc. as a result.


In any case, Technomancer's world is derived from my adventure Soulburner in GURPS Time Travel Adventures (1992) which established Merlin as using the standard magic system; ritual magic wasn't even being considered for GURPS at that time. The origins of Soulburner were simply that I wanted to do something for the Time Travel anthology but was kind of bored by the idea of another history story. Many of the limitations chosen for the setting - the magic area being constrained to the southwest - were picked simply because I was working in a 30-page adventure format (a short story, if you will) and I had to deliberately limit the setting, and also because I felt the focus on the New Mexico and surrounding states gave the setting a sense of place and atmosphere that a more globalized approach would not have done. When expanding it to "novel" length in a full worldbook these decisions were retained; had I started with a full-length work I might have made other decisions, and the book might have been less interesting as a result in accord with the standard game system.

I actually feel that to an extent GURPS Grimoire and GURPS Magic (4e) threaten to "break" the Technomancer world anyway: the huge extra number of, for instance, meta-spells, which didn't really exist at the time I was writing the original, would have significant effects on how society worked. They also make it MUCH harder for the GM to decide what spells powers-that-be need for defenses against criminals, adventurers, or other outlaw PCs, and generally complicate things. Now, a good GM with familiarity with all the rules can work around this, but if I were redoing Technomancer in a "serious" way for 4e, I'd be concerned. Ideally, Technomancer would have its own unique magic system and spell effect sets that even better showcase the tech-magic theme and scientific paradigms, but there are advantages to keeping it within the standard set of spells, if only for cross compatibility.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Ideally, Technomancer would have its own unique magic system and spell effect sets that even better showcase the tech-magic theme and scientific paradigms, but there are advantages to keeping it within the standard set of spells, if only for cross compatibility.

The simplest is just to pull a DF/DFRPG and set a spell list for Technomancer.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

The simplest is just to pull a DF/DFRPG and set a spell list for Technomancer.

Oh, sure. There's been some decent attempts doing just that available on the web as well. But it would be cute to integrate stuff like Magical Styles, or rename the colleges, or whatever. Still, not really necessary or desirable.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

In regard to the idea of how the in-setting use of early Voodoo, ceremonial magic, and other real world systems "worked" my simple assumption was that they were the same magic system as everything else, but the ritual elements just represent added "unscientific" parts of the spells and rituals that served merely to focus the mage's mental state, but that "modern scientific" magic as developed in the 50s and 60s pruned away that sort of thing to get to the basics. If it were a Heinlein or whatever novel I am sure there would be much nattering by the characters about the importance of studying math and physics to get spells right, but I did not opt to go that far. In GURPS terms an early practitioner is simply someone with a set of specific beliefs (and mental or social traits) and, uh, somewhat lower skill, the later resulting increasing casting time and requiring extra gestures, materials, etc. as a result.

The problem is that a "scientific" explanation for spirits and what they could do came out of Platonist Henry Moore in the 17th century and was promoted by Johann Karl Friedrich Zöllne in the 19th. Very simply they were thought to be four (physical) dimensional beings.

Per Carl Sagan "If a fourth-dimension creature existed it could, in our three-dimensional universe, appear and dematerialize at will, change shape remarkably, pluck us out of locked rooms, and make us appear from nowhere." It could even turn you inside out.

Kick it up another notch and you get Mister Mxyztplk (first appeared 1944; that is the original spelling of the name) whose powers were supposedly entirely "scientific" in nature. That fundamental "scientific" explanation even applies to 3e ritual magic Thaumatology which is how magic was viewed on Merlin-1 before the Hellstorm.

In fact, Spirits specifically mentions the Phantom Zone and Mxyzptlk as examples of a outer spirit world and the banishing of a spirit respectively. The Phantom Zone was explained as being a sort of 4th dimensional reality as Phantom Girl (who was also from a 4D world) could access it on her own.

The thing people tend to forget is science has to have a starting point on which to build hypothesis: a postulate on how things work. The way magic was viewed pre-Hellstorm brought with it not only a postulate (multi dimentional beings are responsible for magic) but a hypothesis (one has to attract the attention of these multi dimensional beings and convince them to help) as well. Even better that view seem to show up in the majority of religions/beliefs that viewed magic as "real".

For Merlin-1 to go the way it did requires not only the "scientific" idea of what Spirits were to get thrown out the window but the only broad hypothesis on which to build anything getting thrown out as well. As a scientist myself I can say that simply doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

I actually feel that to an extent GURPS Grimoire and GURPS Magic (4e) threaten to "break" the Technomancer world anyway: the huge extra number of, for instance, meta-spells, which didn't really exist at the time I was writing the original, would have significant effects on how society worked.

I think the wild diversity provided to Magery via Enhancements and Limitations is more prone to break the Technomancer world and Thaumatology only increases the odds of something breaking.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by maximara

Even better that view seem to show up in the majority of religions/beliefs that viewed magic as "real".

For Merlin-1 to go the way it did requires not only the "scientific" idea of what Spirits were to get thrown out the window but the only broad hypothesis on which to build anything getting thrown out as well. As a scientist myself I can say that simply doesn't make sense.

I think the wild diversity provided to Magery via Enhancements and Limitations is more prone to break the Technomancer world and Thaumatology only increases the odds of something breaking.

I don't think it's unreasonable that an earlier view of the nature of magic as relating to spirits was thrown out. While the broad concept of elementary particles has existed since classical times, it wasn't until recently that you could actually detect them. Expecting a 17th century magician to make a distinction between "I can sense spirits that respond to me, and I can sometimes conjure them" and "I sense the flow of non-sentient particles that respond to my will, and I can manipulate them in a way that allows me to open a dimensional gateway to conjure or create beings" seems a bit much.





* You may be right regarding Enhancements/Limitations and Thaumatology.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

I don't think it's unreasonable that an earlier view of the nature of magic as relating to spirits was thrown out. While the broad concept of elementary particles has existed since classical times, it wasn't until recently that you could actually detect them. Expecting a 17th century magician to make a distinction between "I can sense spirits that respond to me, and I can sometimes conjure them" and "I sense the flow of non-sentient particles that respond to my will, and I can manipulate them in a way that allows me to open a dimensional gateway to conjure or create beings" seems a bit much.

Actually it was more along the lines of "there is a fifth element (aether) that occurs in nature (hence alchemy) but spirits (who I can sense) are able to store and focus that element better then I can on my own."

Given some spirit based spells did work why would that model be thrown out?

Sure there would be incentive to access the "aether" (oz particle) directly and cut out the middle man now that it was all over the place but why throw out the model entirely? From a scientific standpoint it just doesn't make sense. Especially when you have one form of spirit (ghost) showing up all over the place and Summon Spirit is a thing.

In anything like the real world the post-Hellstorm world would have been a mess of competing hypothesis for a long while. It would be like Darwinian and Punctuated Equilibrium coexisting; one doesn't nullify the other they just explain observations that each of them on their own can't.

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

* You may be right regarding Enhancements/Limitations and Thaumatology.

I think I am as one of the things I have always looked for since my D&D days are rules or options that have the potential to break the setting.

Take AD&D1's old rules where a character was, in theory, expected to "automatically expend not less than 100 gold pieces per level of experience per month". It was even worst regarding leveling up as the cost of doing so was the "Level of the trainee character * 1,500 gp = Weekly cost during study/training" with the number of weeks being 1 to 4 depending on how good the player role played.

With that sitting in the rules why Monty Haul campaigns were so common becomes obvious - that rule encourage GMs to go that way.

All Thaumatology did is codify options that people had come up with by simply asking 'is there a way to convert Magery into Power Power Investiture?'

Never mind that other advantages (“Magic Only” Fatigue) can throw a spammer into the Merlin-1's works. Then there is Natural magic (GURPS Fantasy) which Alchemy revolves around.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by maximara

Given some spirit based spells did work why would that model be thrown out?

Spells _thought_ to have been based on the actions 0f "spirits" may have worked before Trinity _sometimes_ and may have then worked much better after Trinity but after scicntific analysis of the process it could have been found that sprits have no more to do with basic spell casting than phlogiston had to do with chemistry.

Technomancer is all about scientific magic and It doesn't surprise me that non-functional elements would be discarded in the process of advancement.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by maximara

Given some spirit based spells did work why would that model be thrown out?

Sure there would be incentive to access the "aether" (oz particle) directly and cut out the middle man now that it was all over the place but why throw out the model entirely? From a scientific standpoint it just doesn't make sense. Especially when you have one form of spirit (ghost) showing up all over the place and Summon Spirit is a thing.

In anything like the real world the post-Hellstorm world would have been a mess of competing hypothesis for a long while. It would be like Darwinian and Punctuated Equilibrium coexisting; one doesn't nullify the other they just explain observations that each of them on their own can't.

I am sure that there were and are zillions of competing magical theories floating about, but that by the 1960s or so - after they had actually found oz particles - most scientists came to accept whatever proved testable.

It's kind of like going for a unified field theory in physics. There remain elements of uncertainty related to spirits within the setting (see the notes on demons, elementals, and ghosts). At the same time, the "mainstream" oz particle theory seems experimentally testable.

However, the idea that you are contacting spirits and getting them to do things for you does not seem to be "necessary."

That is, mages who were working in this fashion were deluding themselves: when they "called upon a spirit" to perform a magical effect, they were actually performing that effect themselves, but the focus involved in creating an altered state of consciousness in which they believed they were invoking spirits was akin to the state necessary to control magical energies.

Modern magic, then, is a streamlining of the process. By analogy, suppose there is a herb that is medicinal. An old tradition may suggest you gather the herb under the full moon while invoking the goddess, then prepare it in a particular way. If science suggests all you need to do is prepare the herb in a particular way, you can skip the invocation of the goddess and the ritual.

Or at least, such is the mainstream view of magic. But as indicated, there are things like the pesky demons, elementals, and so on. Are they just manifestations of the mage's unconscious - or a collective mind of humanity linked by subliminal magical channels - leaking through? Or are they real in themselves?

If the latter, can they grant powers independent of the standard magic system? It's certainly a worthy option to pursue in a game.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

But as indicated, there are things like the pesky demons, elementals, and so on. Are they just manifestations of the mage's unconscious - or a collective mind of humanity linked by subliminal magical channels - leaking through? Or are they real in themselves?

If the latter, can they grant powers independent of the standard magic system? It's certainly a worthy option to pursue in a game.

Well we know the Blessed advantage exists on Merlin-1 and one of the implied ways it could work in 3e was to grant a form of mageryless mana based magic:

"A simple clerical advantage is to allow non-mage clerics to use spells of one (or a few) colleges as though they were mages. So, even in normal and low-mana areas, a cleric of (for instance) a healing-oriented power can cast Healing spells. Any cleric with magical abilities can also learn Recover ST. Appropriate cost is 10 points for one college, 12 for two, 15 for three. Spells of other colleges can be learned, and used as prerequisites, but not cast except in high-mana areas. (...)

A Power may grant its clerics a bonus to effective spell skill. Increase the cost of the advantage by 5 points for each +1 bonus, up to a maximum of +3. Bonuses for healing skills cost 2 points for each +1, up to a maximum of +3. Other sorts of bonus may be allowed" - 3e Magic 2e pg 95

Aside from still using mana this is akin to a proto version of the Religion magic system which seems to be the best "fit" for what 3e Ritual Magic (Voodoo/Spirits) as that didn't use either magery or mana.

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Technomancer is all about scientific magic and It doesn't surprise me that non-functional elements would be discarded in the process of advancement.

One thing that struck me as odd is Rune (ie Symbol) magic not existing on Merlin-1 but more general Improvised magic (ie Syntactic magic) could. The later is far more powerful and chaotic.

But even this form of magic supposedly follows some of the "laws" explained in Authentic Thaumaturgy:

The Law of Knowledge, Self-Knowledge, Cause & Effect, Synchronicity, Association, Similarity, Contagion, Positive Attraction, Negative Attraction, Names, Words of Power, Personification, Invocation, Evocation, Identification, Infinite Data, Finite Senses, Personal Universes, Infinite Universes, Pragmatism, True Falsehoods, Synthesis, Polarity, Dynamic Balance, Perversity, and Unity.


3e GURPS did a lot of things with magic that eventually turned into a gordian knot of mess. 4e did a good job of cleaning up things but also opened a hug can of worms.