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Old 01-11-2019, 08:53 AM   #1
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default IT:DR pricing

IT:DR is an odd trait that levels up in a log fashion. As such, it starts out somewhat weak compared to buying HP, but then scales up and easily over takes buying HP.

In general, I find myself seeing it as a good fit for some concepts an alternative at the lower levels which is where it offers the least benefit. Examples:
- takes 1/2 damage from fire.
- weighs 200 lbs but takes damage a higher mass.

Where are you allowed to buy HP, HP is a much better deal. HP is cheaper (up until you hit about /50), can also be massless (0%), and doesn't suffer from the "round up" issue (i.e. every point of HP will take a point of damage while /10 takes the same if the fraction is only 1 point as if it was 10 points).

On the pro side, IT:DR is very easy to note and often IMO easier than a split HP score. HP is also generally limited to be within 30% of ST.

The notion here is to reprice IT:DR for its drawbacks (above) considering that it effectively multiples your HP when you take lots of damage. I'm going to suggest that pricing it as if HP15 is reasonably fair (rounding cancels out much of the benefit of higher HP and either SuperST or KYOS keep HP values fairly reasonable). That would put the levels at: /2 = 30. /3 = 60. /5 = 120. /10 = 270. Where the cost is [30 * (divisor - 1)] points. You can further stack modifiers on it.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

PK had a good explaination a long while back about why ITDR is priced as it is. Maybe someone can link to it. Either way, it was based on the price of Vulnerability, which it is the opposite of.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:16 AM   #3
naloth
 
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humabout View Post
PK had a good explaination a long while back about why ITDR is priced as it is. Maybe someone can link to it. Either way, it was based on the price of Vulnerability, which it is the opposite of.
Sure, I don't recall reading that. I'd be interesting in seeing it if you or someone could find it.

It sounds a bit strange, though, since:
- Vulnerability is typically taken as a level or two where IT:DR isn't very useful unless you invest in it.
- IT:DR was presented as a counter to (obscenely expensive) DR to survive military armor piercing weapons.
- IT:DR progresses much differently than vuln as you level it.

Also, my pricing was used primarily in conjunction with KYOS (log ST/HP) which might switch things up a bit.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
- Vulnerability is typically taken as a level or two where IT:DR isn't very useful unless you invest in it.
That varies strongly with the amount of HP you have. The most "efficient" build is one that balances buying both.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:38 AM   #5
naloth
 
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
That varies strongly with the amount of HP you have. The most "efficient" build is one that balances buying both.
You can work out the breakpoints, but I suspect you'll find that under IT:DR/20 HP (where available) is always better deal at its present cost even if you try to balance the amount of HP and IT:DR you take. Log effects with linear costs tend to scale better when you invest in only them.

Above that, it will depend on weapons you're facing off against for the exact balance of DR, HP, and IT:DR. None of this calculates in modifiers (Cosmic: Round Off being a big wildcard) that aren't special effects. Most modifiers that restrict what it works on (Fire only -40%) still favor HP, the mods just make HP calculations more complicated.

*Fixed the log statement.

Last edited by naloth; 01-11-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
That varies strongly with the amount of HP you have. The most "efficient" build is one that balances buying both.
Well, 2 points in IT(DR), if that were permitted, would multiply your effective HP by 10^1/75 or 1.031, while 2 points in HP multiply effective HP by 1/(current HP), meaning IT(DR) is more efficient once your basic HP exceed 32. Due to rounding issues with IT(DR), the actual break point varies somewhat, but buying HP up to 32 and then taking IT(DR) is unlikely to be dramatically wrong (worst case, IT(DR) 20 and 32 hp = 244 points and eHP 640, IT(DR) 15 and 44 hp = 243 points and eHP 660), and this only occurs because of rounding issues with the range/speed chart (currently, (20) costs 200 and (15) costs 175, but 150xlog10(n) would give costs of 195 and 176).
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

Also worth considering is that IT:DR works at negative HP.
What I mean buy that is its not just HP 20 or HP 10 + IT/DR/2 are exactly the same since after you reach 0 your still dividing by 2.
Ie 20 HP damage puts both at 0 HP, but 40 HP damage is -20 HP or -10 HP.

I use IT:DR in Supers and some large bosses or cinematic heroes to make damage less 'swingy' since it improves the margin between wounded and red mist.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Also worth considering is that IT:DR works at negative HP.
So do hit points.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
So do hit points.
Oh, you mean things like multiples of HP (fully Negative and multiples for death checks and crippling?), thats true. Though its still better for unconsciousness checks. Used to be better for faster healing two before I found the optional HP healing rule.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: IT:DR pricing

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
So do hit points.
Agreed.
Having 40 HP means you can take more damage overall.
Me, I'm a fan of both. A good chunk of IT:DR and a healthy chunk of HP. Usually with a little DR thrown in for good measure (and to keep those people with knives busy).
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