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Old 01-10-2019, 10:58 PM   #31
Raekai
 
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Your stuff from this older thread has kept me interested in KYOS stuff. I haven't committed to using it, but now I just might.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
From KYOS and using the baseline that everything expands at the same rate with a log progression such that:
ST 20 BL 200 lbs Thr 3d
ST 30 BL 2000 lbs Thr 5d+1 (~Spidey's ST)
ST 40 BL 10 ton Thr 8d (~Thing/Colossus ST)
ST 60 BL 1k ton Thr 13d (Superman recent movie)

Here's what a few basic book weapons look like (nothing below 4d is affected):
TL6 Concussion Grenade was 6d, now 4d+1
TL7 Concussion Grenade was 10d, now 6d
TL7 Frag Grenade was 8d[3d], now 5d+1[3d]

Assault Rifle was 5d, now 4d+1
Hunting Rifle was 7d, now 5d
Sniping Rifle was 9d+1, now 5d+2

ATGM was 60d(10d), now 10d+1(10)
SAM was 18d, now 7d+1
HMG .50 was 13d+1, now 6d+2

Bazooka was 6dx2(10), now 6d+1
RPG was 6dx3(10), now 7d+1
LAW was 6dx6(10), now 9d+1

You can also rescale the animals, vehicles, and armor in other books either using KYOS rules or this:
Old ST/DR 20 now 16
Old ST/DR 30 now 20
Old ST/DR 40 now 22
Old ST/DR 60 now 26
Old ST/DR 80 now 28
Old ST/DR 100 now 30
Old ST/DR 150 now 33
Old ST/DR 250 now 38
Old ST/DR 500 now 44
Old ST/DR 1k now 50

You get a very cinematic, very playable 4 color world. It's basically what film, TV, and Supers play like.

For stacking (since these are log values):
Use highest and add +3 for equal values, +2 if they are within 1 or 2 lower, +1 with 3-5 levels, +0 otherwise.

Example
DR 20 + 20 (layered/cover) = DR23 for protection.
DR 20 + 19 (layered/cover) = DR22
DR 20 + 16 (layered/cover) = DR21
DR 20 + 14- (layered/cover) = DR20 (no benefit).

It also helps explain why a character (dragon? Super?) with good DR won't bother with armor. There's marginal benefit and only if it's nearly as tough as the character.
I'm throwing that post into this thread because I actually found your previous explanation a little bit easier for me to understand.

Furthermore, while I'm aware that you're looking at Supers stuff, do you have an idea as to how you would approach low-tech arms and armor? It seems out of the scope you've been touching on (especially with the note that no high-tech arms under 4d have been altered), but I wanted to see if you had any thoughts. Can low-tech weapons continue to be used as is? What about armor in the lower DR ranges? Because it seems like DR 1 through DR 3 would all just become DR 1, which seems a little... wrong?

I'm starting to work on putting together a new campaign, and I am almost convinced that I should finally apply KYOS.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:44 AM   #32
naloth
 
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raekai View Post
Your stuff from this older thread has kept me interested in KYOS stuff. I haven't committed to using it, but now I just might.
I lost track of that thread... I may just use that instead of the table snip I put here.

Quote:
Furthermore, while I'm aware that you're looking at Supers stuff, do you have an idea as to how you would approach low-tech arms and armor?
My rescaling chart starts as 14 (just under 4d), which would work for high/cinematic fantasy (gods, dragons, ogres, demigods) but wouldn't really have much of an impact on the human range (8-14). KYOS would be a bit touch more generous with encumbrance and damage.

Quote:
It seems out of the scope you've been touching on (especially with the note that no high-tech arms under 4d have been altered)
For Supers, 16+ is where I started since I arbitrarily decided 16 was as high as realistic humans have for attributes. Everything lower is as it was, which helps existing players translate. They didn't have much of a point of reference for super high values and where familiar with the numbers in the 8-16 range.

For skills I rate the what you need to be called: 12+ = professional, 14+ = specialist, 16+ = expert, 18+ = master, and 21+ one of the best in the world. When you call a plumber you expect you're getting a 12+ skill. When you go to a surgeon, you expect a 14+. If they are talented enough that the professionals and specialists refer you to them, then are likely 16+. If they progress the field, they are probably 18-25. You can can take 25+, but I've always felt you can better diversify to negate 10+ penalties rather than high skill.

Quote:
I'm starting to work on putting together a new campaign, and I am almost convinced that I should finally apply KYOS.
Sure, why don't you PM me what it's about or open a new thread?
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:02 PM   #33
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

DC tends to have more powerful heroes which makes them a good candidate for this system. I did a quick write-up that approximates what I recall from the JL movie.

Aquaman
ST 40 BL 10 tons Thr 8d [ 300 ]
DX 14 [ 80 ]
IQ 12 [ 40 ]
HT 14 [ 40 ]
Speed 7 [ 0 ]

Allies (Group up to 25%, base 1, 12-, x2, 51-100, x12; Env - only underwater -20%; Summonable +100%)' [ 44 ]
Amphibious [ 10 ]
Combat Reflexes [ 15 ]
Daredevil [ 15 ]
Destiny (Great) [ 15 ]
Empathy (Marine) [ 15 ]
Enhanced Move 5 (Swimming; Top move 224 yds/sec; Instant Acceleration +50%) [ 150 ]
High Pain Threshold [ 10 ]
Independent Wealth 20 [ 20 ]
IT:DR/5 [ 125 ]
Mind Control (Independent +70%; Suggestion -40%; Uncontrollable -20%) [ 55 ]
Night Vision/9 [9]
Perk: Spear -> Staff skill [ 1 ]
Perk: Trident [ 1 ]
Pressure Support 3 [ 15 ]
Regeneration (Regular) [ 25 ]
Telesend (Broadcast +50%) [ 45 ]

Brawling-16 (DX+2) [4]; Explorer!-12 (WC) [24]; Spear-16 (DX+2) [8] [ 34 ]

Total [ 1030 ]

Batman
ST 16 BL 80 Thr 2d [ 60 ]
DX 16 [ 120 ]
IQ 16 [ 120 ]
HT 13 [ 80 ]
Speed 7.25 [ 0 ]

Combat Reflexes [ 15 ]
Danger Sense [ 15 ]
Daredevil [ 15 ]
Fit [ 5 ]
Gizmos 5 [ 25 ]
High Pain Threshold [ 10 ]
Independent Income 10 [ 10 ]
Indominable [ 15 ]
Intuition [ 15 ]
Luck (Extraordinary) [ 30 ]
Night Vision/5 [ 5 ]
Obscure 8 (Darkness/Smoke; Area 4 +150%; Persistent +40%; Ranged +40%) [ 53 ]
Peripherial Vision [ 15 ]
Rapier Wit [ 5 ]
Status 3 (Free) [ 0 ]
Unfazable [ 15 ]
WM (All) [ 45 ]
Wealth (Multimillionaire 4) [ 150 ]
Wild Talent [ 20 ]
Visualization (Reduced Time +140%; Blessing +100%; Cursing +100%; Selectivity +10%) [ 45 ]

Businessman!-14 (WC-2) [6]; Detective!-16 (WC) [24]; Martial Artist!-18 (WC+2) [48]; Scientist-14! (WC-2) [6]; Tactics-20 (IQ+4) [20] [ 104 ]

Total [ 992 ]

Bat-Shuriken 2d+1 cut
Bat-Stun Grenade (HT-5 aff 10yds)
Bat-Frag 8d cr ex [3d]
Bat-Conc Grenade 5dx2 cr ex

Flash
ST 12 BL 32 Thr 1d+2 [ 20 ]
DX 13 [ 60 ]
IQ 13 [ 60 ]
HT 13 [ 30 ]
Speed 8 [ 30 ]

ATR/4 (Super 10%) [ 360 ]
Enhanced Move 5 (Ground; Top Move 256 yds/sed; Cosmic: Second Nature +150%; Super -10%) [ 240 ]
Enhanced Time Sense (Super -10%) [ 41 ]
IA 10d (Shock Touch; Melee, C -30%; Surge +20%; Takes Extra Time x4 -20%; Super -10%) [ 30 ]
IT:DR/2 (Super -10%) [ 45 ]
Regeneration (Instant; Super -10%)) [ 90 ]
Resistant (Hazards, +8; Super -10%)) [ 14 ]
Striking ST+8 (Super -10%) [ 15 ]
Very Fit [ 15 ]

Move!-12 (WC-1) [12]; Scrounging-13 (Per) [1] [ 13 ]

Total [ 1063 ]

Superman
ST 60 BL 1k tons Thr 13d (+45 Kryptonian -10%) [ 455 ]
DX 12 [ 40 ]
IQ 12 [ 40 ]
HT 12 [ 20 ]
Speed 6 [ 0 ]

DR 25 (Skin -20%; Kryptonian -10%) [ 88 ]
ETS (Kryptonian -10%) [ 41 ]
Enhanced Move 5 (Flight; max 1280 yds/sec ; Kryptonian -10%) [ 90 ]
Flight (Space +50%; Kryptonian -10%) [ 56 ]
Flight Move +14 (Kryptionian -10%) [ 26 ]
High Pain Threshold (Kryptionian -10%) [ 9 ]
IA 2d burn (Laser Vision; Accurate +2 +10%; AP/10 +200%; RoF 10, Selective Fire +110%; Kryptonian -10%) [ 31 ]
IA 4d cr (Freezing Breath; Cone 5 yd base +100%; Range x4 20/40 +30%; Jet 0%; Dbl KB +20%; Freezing +20%; Kryptonian -10%) [ 32 ]
Perk- Nigh Invulnerable Costume [ 1 ]
Rapport (Lois) [ 5 ]
Regeneration (Regular; Kryptonian -10%) [ 23 ]
Ultrapower (Kryptonian -10%) [ 45 ]
Wild Talent 2 (Wild Ability +50%; Super Senses Only -20%) [ 52 ]

Brawling-12 (DX) [1]; IA-14 (DX+2) [4]; Investigator!-11 (WC-1) [12]; Writer-16 (IQ+3) [16] [ 33 ]

Total [ 1087 ]

Wonder Woman
ST 50 BL 100 tons Thr 10d+2 [ 400 ]
DX 15 [ 120 ]
IQ 12 [ 40 ]
HT 13 [ 30 ]
Speed 7 [ 0 ]

Combat Reflexes [ 15 ]
DB2 (Bracelets, Stolen & Unique -30%) [ 42 ]
Daredevil [ 15 ]
Empathy [ 15 ]
High Pain Threshold [ 10 ]
IT:DR/5 [ 125 ]
Mind Probe (Magic Lasso, Stolen & Unique -30%; Acc: Used Conversationally -20%; Melee: Whiplike -15%; Reliable +50%; Temp Disad: Truthfulness, 6- -10%) [ 15 ]
Perk: Magic ST for her ST [ 1 ]
Perk: Tough Shield [ 1 ]
Regeneration (Slow) [ 10 ]
Super Jumping 5 [ 50 ]
Unaging [ 5 ]
Wealth (Comfortable) [ 10 ]
WM (Amazon) [ 30 ]

History!-12 (WC) [24]; Martial Artist (Amazon)!-18 (WC+3) [60] [ 84 ]

Total [ 1018 ]

Designer Notes
Like I said before, these are what I would create for players to run these iconics in a JL type movie. As such, they intended to be able to balance out to around 1k each with similar screen time. Some are do more damage, some have better support abilities, some take damage better, and the Flash is just learning how to use his abilities properly. I didn't stat Cyborg yet, but I might add him later.

First off, Aquaman is fairly tough on both land and sea. Atlantians are intended to be fairly strong (30s? as would be the Amazons), water adapted, and use telesend to communicate. Royals are amphibious. The EM for Swimming is instant on acceleration (from the recent move) and fairly fast, but not good for combat. Aquaman has an additional affinity for marine creatures even tending to defend him when he's upset (suggestion, uncontrollable). In the right setting he can summon a veritable army of critters underwater.

Batman is the old, somewhat burnt out Batman. Years of wear has reduced him to merely peak human levels backed by an insane amount of experience. He relies on real equipment made in "bat" motif. Gadgets allow him to pull anything he could have put in his belt. Visualization allows him to make an IQ roll each turn to benefit <or> penalize someone by 1/3 the MOS (usually a +2 or -2). Otherwise, he's rich, skilled, and has most benefits that a human can.

The Flash is the young, hardly knows his powers version. He's capable of building up static shocks and moving at top speed as easily as most PCs use their normal move. He gets 5 turns for everyone else's one turn, so he can take 5 move maneuvers. Using 5 move maneuvers to each go 256 yards (he can go from 0 to top speed or from top speed to 0 in one maneuver), he can top 1280 yds/sec which is where I put Superman's top speed on this write-up. He's quite powerful if you use, using AoA and AoD as warranted.

The movie Superman (and post-1984 version) are reallly tough aliens that are superior to any military but merely tougher than most metahumans. Kryptonians (and indeed anyone in that league) can indeed beat each other senseless. I've trimmed the less used senses as well in favor of a Wild Talent, so he can have them when he needs them but doesn't need to price out each of them. Mostly he's a tough brawler that can fly.

Wonder Woman is a tough, skilled warrior. She's a but lower in ST, but uses a sword at higher skill that more than makes up for the difference. She has quite a few support abilities (lasso, bracelets, empathy) and plenty of training. MA (Amazon) swaps the traditional ninga type weapons (katana, throwing star, etc) for amazon type weapons (bow, shortsword, shield). Diana does 10d+4 impaling or 10d+6 cutting after WM bonuses with her shortsword.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:22 PM   #34
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Here are the characters that propelled the X-Men from obscurity to a household name. Here are the "new" X-Men:

Banshee
ST 12 BL 32 Thr 1d [ 20 ]
DX 12 [ 40 ]
IQ 12 [ 40 ]
HT 12 [ 20 ]
Speed 6 [ 0 ]

Affliction 3 (Sonic Stun @HT-2; AD/5 +150%; Cone 5 yd base +100%; Env Air/Water -5%; Unconsciousness +200%; Selectivity +10%; Underwater +20%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 111 ]
Charisma 1 [ 5 ]
DR 15 (Sonic Shield; Affects Others +50%; Directional -20%; FF +20%; Physical Only -20%; Mutant Super -20%; AA:Affliction) [ 17 ]
Enhance Move 4 (Flight, max speed 192; Flaps -35%; Mutant Super -20%; AA: Affliction) [ 8 ]
Fit [ 5 ]
Flight (Requires SM-2, DR 5, HP 8 flaps -35%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 18 ]
IA 6d burn (Scream; Env Air/Water -5%; Full Body 0%; No Incendiary -10%; Side Effect, Deafness +70%; Underwater +20%; Variable +5%; Mutant Super -20%; AA: Affliction) [ 10 ]
Mind Control (Sonic Suggestion; Hearing-Based -20%; Independent +70%; Suggestion -40%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 45 ]
Protected Hearing (Mutant Super -20%) [ 4 ]
Resistant to Sonics (Immune; Super -20%) [ 12 ]
Scanning Sense (Sonar; Mutant Super -20%) [ 16 ]
Status 1 (Inherited Title) [ 5 ]
Talent: Sonic 3 [15]
Wealth (Wealthy) [ 20 ]

Aerobatics-12 (DX) [4]; Guns (Pistol)-14 (DX+2) [4]; IA-16 (DX+4) [12]; Piano-11 (IQ-1) [1]; Spy!-12 (WC) [24] [ 45 ]

Total [ 456 ]

Colossus
ST 15/40 (+25 In Alt Form -10%; Mutant Super -20%) BL 63lbs / 10 tons Thr 2d-1 / 8d [ 225 ]
DX 11 [ 29 ]
IQ 12 [ 40 ]
HT 13 [ 30 ]
Speed 6 [ 0 ]

DR 20 (Nuisance: Metal Body -5%; Skin -20%; Switchable +10%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 65 ]
Doesn't Breathe (Alt Form -10%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 14 ]
High Pain Threshold [ 10 ]
IT:DR/2 (Alt From -10%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 35 ]
Language: English (Accented) Russian (Native) [ 4 ]
Perk: Hard Striking Surface [ 1 ]
Pressure Support 3 (Alt Form -10%; Mutant Super -20%%) [ 10.5 ]
Sealed (Alt Form -10%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 10.5 ]
Vacuum Support (Alt Form -10%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 4 ]

Artist-12 (IQ+1) [4]; Brawling-14 (DX+3) [8] [ 12 ]

Total [ 490 ]

Nightcrawler
ST 12 BL 32 Thr 1d [ 20 ]
DX 15 [ 100 ]
IQ 11 [ 20 ]
HT 11 [ 10 ]
Speed 7 [ 0 ]

Absolute Direction (Mutant Super -20%) [ 5 ]
Ambidexterity [5]
ATR/2 (Only for Warp -20%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 120 ]
Clinging (Mutant Super -20%) [ 16 ]
Extra Arm (Tail; Extra Flexible +50%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 13 ]
Language: English (Accented) German (Native) Latin (Accented) [ 8 ]
Night Vision/8 (Mutant Super -20%) [ 7 ]
Perfect Balance (Mutant Super -20%) [ 15 ]
Perk: Fur (Mutant Super -20%) [ 1 ]
Perk: No Nuisance Rolls (Body Sense) [ 1 ]
Teeth (Sharp; Mutant Super -20%) [ 1 ]
Warp (Max 2 miles -30%; Med Enc +20%; Reliable +10 +50%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 120 ]

Body Sense-13* (DX-2) [1]; Religion-10 (IQ-1) [1]; Swashbuckler!-16 (WC+1) [36] [ 38

Total [ 500 ]

Storm
ST 11 BL 25 Thr 1d-1 [ 10 ]
DX 12 [ 40 ]
IQ 13 Will 16 [ 75 ]
HT 12 [ 20 ]
Speed 6

Control 9 (Weather, common +100%; Uncontrollable -20%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 288 ]
Flight (Mutant Super -20%) [ 32 ]
IA 5d burn (Lighting Bolt; Acc +2 +10%; Range 100/100 +15%; Side Effect, Stunning +50%; Surge +20%; Variable +5%; Mutant Super -20%; AA: Control) [ 9 ]
IA 2d cr (Twister; 4 yds +100%; Dbl Knkback +20%; Env Air -5%; Mobile 4 +160%; Persistent +40%; Mutant Super -20%; AA: Control) [ 8 ]
IA 2d pi (Hailstorm; Area 32 yds +250%; Bombardment, skl 10 -15%; Overhead +30%; Persistent +40%; Selective +20%; Variable +5%; Mutant Super -20%; AA: Control) [ 41 ]
Ultrapower (Mutant Super -20%) [ 40 ]

Claustrophobia (12-) [ -15 ]

Aerobatics-12 (DX) [4]; Brawling-14 (DX+2) [4]; IA-14 (DX+2) [4]; Knife-12 (DX) [1]; Leadership-14 (IQ+2) [8]; Survival (Urban & Savanna)-12 [2] Thief!-12 (WC) [24] [ 47 ]

Total [ 595 ]

Wolverine
ST 15 BL 63 Thr 2d-1 [ 50 ]
DX 12 [ 40 ]
IQ 12 Per 16 [ 60 ]
HT 12 [ 20 ]
Speed 6

Ambidexterity [ 5 ]
Combat Reflexes [ 15 ]
Discriminatory Smell (Emotion Sense +50%; Mutant Super -20%) [ 20 ]
Fit [ 10 ]
High Pain Threshold [ 10 ]
IA 4d cut (Claws; AP/10 +200%; Melee Dual C -20%) [ 79 ]
IA 2d imp (Claws; AP/10 +200%; Melee Dual C -20%; AA:IA) [ 9 ]
IT:DR/5 (Mutant Super -20%) [ 100 ]
IT:Unbreakable Bones [10]
Regeneration (Instant; Mutant Super -20%) [ 80 ]
Resistant (Metabolic Hazards +8; Mutant Super -20%) [ 12 ]

Brawling-14 (DX+2) [4]; Motorcycle-12 (DX) [1]; Scout!-12 (DX) [24] [ 29 ]

Total [ 549 ]

Designer's Notes
These were again designed to fit around 500 and represent the more original versions of many of them.

Banshee is a former undercover agent with lots of various sonic derived powers, most of which are pretty powerful. Banshee is somewhat fragile but packed with utility.

Colossus is a good brick at 500 points. Poitr strikes for 8d+3 cr and absorbs damage pretty well. His default form is human, and I believe he reverts to sleep.

When thinking out Nightcrawler, I realized he's just a speedster in disguise. His ATR allows him to 'port in, attack using his normal maneuver, than 'port out. He can potentially grapple and 'port with someone else as well provided they are less than 96 lbs (med enc). I'd consider increasing either his ST or Med -> Hvy to make him more powerful. Against normals he'll probably be using swords, wielding up to 3 swords at a time.

Storm is a big concept for 500 points. Weather control is powerful, and I had to limit what she can do to fit it in.

Wolverine is a "huge history" character with a lot of niche abilities for the places he's been. His powers are fairly simple, but his history has history. Instead I focused on his abilities skipping the fact that he probably knows a dozen languages, has obscure skills, and turns up in every third comic.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:58 PM   #35
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

What about Nightcrawler's ability to blend into shadows? (see: Uncanny X-Men #102-3, and later confirmed during the run of Alans Davis and Moore on Excalibur.) It's little known, but very useful, adding to his Stealth skill. (He used it to hide from Arcade's scanners in Murderworld at least twice.)

I also don't see Kurt's Leadership skill, given he was tapped as the X-Men's leader when both Cyclops and Storm were unavailable, and was the acknowledged yet unofficial leader of Excalibur during his tenure there.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Now I remember why I always end-up using HERO instead of GURPS for Supers (beside the Super ST mess). GURPS has so many options (imbuement, martial arts, equipment, etc...) and interactions between them that it is sometimes somewhat difficult to balance characters with one another. He mostly see this richness as a feature but for Supers, it becomes a drawback. I guess that's why after Dungeon Fantasy RPG, I would have hoped for a similarly focused Supers RPG.

Back to the thread, I am really enjoying your write-ups Naloth. Here are a few more very high level comments:

Iron Fist damage: I understand your approach but I don't believe that his highest attack should be as damaging (or more damaging than Thor's normal attack). I don't believe it reflects the source material (I am not trying to change your mind, just stating my opinion).

Ultrapower: I generally dislike Ultrapower. It is just too loosely define for my tastes.

Aquaman: I suggest some level of DR. In the moving, Black Manta's blade do not even pierce his skin with a very direct hit.

Superman: He seems to be missing any king of environmental immunities or protection (vacuum, pressure, heat, cold, etc...). An oversight?

Wonder Woman: What, no attractiveness level :)?

Balance: Unless I miss something, Wonder Woman would kick Supes butt. Her much higher skill combined with a better damage (with the sword) and the fact that Supes has no IT:DR lead to that conclusion. As seen in JL, Superman is clearly more powerful; manhandling the whole team first and then being clearly superior to Steppenwolf while the whole team is struggling against him*

*This is only based on a very cursory look of the write-ups.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:32 PM   #37
naloth
 
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadDomain View Post
Iron Fist damage: I understand your approach but I don't believe that his highest attack should be as damaging (or more damaging than Thor's normal attack). I don't believe it reflects the source material (I am not trying to change your mind, just stating my opinion).
I'm honestly not sure. I came onto the series later in his career (post Heroes for Hire) and there wasn't much that could stand up to a full power punch. I joke about the helicarrier destroyed in a hit but some writer did it. I'm open to lower (capping out around 9d? less?) overall.

Quote:
Ultrapower: I generally dislike Ultrapower. It is just too loosely define for my tastes.
Yea, I don't use it much in personal gaming. I threw it on these for the "Thor lifts a skyscraper", "Storm blankets the northwest in a snowstorm" type feats. It's a bit of an experiment.

Quote:
Aquaman: I suggest some level of DR. In the moving, Black Manta's blade do not even pierce his skin with a very direct hit.
Good point. Less IT:DR, more DR :)

Quote:
Superman: He seems to be missing any king of environmental immunities or protection (vacuum, pressure, heat, cold, etc...). An oversight?
Yes and no. I cut quite a few things to stay around 1k and he didn't need those for the movie. I see that I didn't make his heat vision/breath AAs so I can do that (perhaps even add AoA to them) and then free up points for those traits.

Quote:
Wonder Woman: What, no attractiveness level :)?
Yes, an oversight. I'd add Beautiful since it's commented on by at least 2 people in each movie.

Quote:
Balance: Unless I miss something, Wonder Woman would kick Supes butt. Her much higher skill combined with a better damage (with the sword) and the fact that Supes has no IT:DR lead to that conclusion.
True, if Supes fights to her strength where she gets her sword and he's trying to punch away. Doing 39 imp, she'll average 28 per hit. He does 15 per hit. He may have slightly more HP, but yea, he'll run out faster even before you consider her superior skill. I should probably up his DR to 30, lowering her damage to 18 per hit with the sword.

Of course, if it turns into a grappling match, he'll crush her somewhat slowly.

If he's tactically wise and doesn't wish to engage, he can do a pretty neat job just frying her with heat vision while flying too. Slams also favor him greatly.

Quote:
As seen in JL, Superman is clearly more powerful; manhandling the whole team first and then being clearly superior to Steppenwolf while the whole team is struggling against him*
Obviously they weren't really trying to hurt him while he wasn't really holding back. :) I was trying to keep them roughly equal, hence you get a Supes that isn't as powerful as he might otherwise be.

In any case, it makes for poor party balance when you intentionally create a PC that can take on everyone else single-handedly.

FWIW, I also created the entire JL and the New X-Men today in my spare time, so I'm not married to the stats or abilities. I put them together as examples, often using similar stuff I've already made for comparisons guessing what feels good for play.

Last edited by naloth; 01-11-2019 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:57 PM   #38
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
What about Nightcrawler's ability to blend into shadows? (see: Uncanny X-Men #102-3, and later confirmed during the run of Alans Davis and Moore on Excalibur.) It's little known, but very useful, adding to his Stealth skill. (He used it to hide from Arcade's scanners in Murderworld at least twice.)

I also don't see Kurt's Leadership skill, given he was tapped as the X-Men's leader when both Cyclops and Storm were unavailable, and was the acknowledged yet unofficial leader of Excalibur during his tenure there.
Actually I was just noting that I missed Kurt's blending advantages (while working on Nocturne). I will definitely add that.

As for the lack of leadership, I was aiming for a younger Kurt. The older one would have a *lot* more abilities including the ability to offensively KO people by grappling and teleporting them until they pass out. It's hard to say just where to cut off adding stuff when you have very long running, very developed characters. The current comic version is Unkillable (barred form heaven!?!)
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I'm honestly not sure. I came onto the series later in his career (post Heroes for Hire) and there wasn't much that could stand up to a full power punch. I joke about the helicarrier destroyed in a hit but some writer did it. I'm open to lower (capping out around 9d? less?) overall..
Yea, I'd say 8d or 9d max.


Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Yea, I don't use it much in personal gaming. I threw it on these for the "Thor lifts a skyscraper", "Storm blankets the northwest in a snowstorm" type feats. It's a bit of an experiment.
Ultrapower is really a GM fiat as written. It is almost an accepted play style for every player (doesn't cost points) as opposed to a power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Good point. Less IT:DR, more DR :)
Yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Yes and no. I cut quite a few things to stay around 1k and he didn't need those for the movie. I see that I didn't make his heat vision/breath AAs so I can do that (perhaps even add AoA to them) and then free up points for those traits.
Ok. Even in the movies though he goes in space and doesn't seem to mind cold or heat in anyway. Not sure we seen any high pressure exposure but it is very much iconic Supes that he is not affected by him. It's hard to keep him in the same point range as others as his powers are so broadly diverse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Yes, an oversight. I'd add Beautiful since it's commented on by at least 2 people in each movie.
Ok :)

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
True, if Supes fights to her strength where she gets her sword and he's trying to punch away. Doing 39 imp, she'll average 28 per hit. He does 15 per hit. He may have slightly more HP, but yea, he'll run out faster even before you consider her superior skill. I should probably up his DR to 30, lowering her damage to 18 per hit with the sword.

Of course, if it turns into a grappling match, he'll crush her somewhat slowly.

If he's tactically wise and doesn't wish to engage, he can do a pretty neat job just frying her with heat vision while flying too. Slams also favor him greatly.
Supes generally doesn't really fight tactically and from a power perspective, it should be the other way around. If WW doesn't fight smart, she will lose. She is a better fighter but doesn't pack the same puch nor can she absorb as much. Of course, as you point out below, if they are player characters, WW must have other areas where she can out shine Supes. I just don't believe it should be in a slug fest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Obviously they weren't really trying to hurt him while he wasn't really holding back. :) I was trying to keep them roughly equal, hence you get a Supes that isn't as powerful as he might otherwise be.

In any case, it makes for poor party balance when you intentionally create a PC that can take on everyone else single-handedly.
Understood!

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
FWIW, I also created the entire JL and the New X-Men today in my spare time, so I'm not married to the stats or abilities. I put them together as examples, often using similar stuff I've already made for comparisons guessing what feels good for play.
Well done all considered!
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:58 PM   #40
DreadDomain
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Don't want to highjack (and will not start putting my own write-ups) but here is an example of Daredevil that I wrote a while back. I haven't double-checked anything but I quickly realised he does not have any swinging ability with his club. I would probably lower his DX to free up a few points to add that. I am pretty sure that build was heavily inspired (and potentially shamelessly ripped off) by Phantasm work in his Marvel reboot thread so kudos to him.

Daredevil [500]

Attributes [310]
ST 14 [40] DX 18 [160] IQ 14 [80] HT 14 [40]

Secondary Characteristics
Will 14 [0] Per 15 [5] FP 14 [0] HP 14 [0]
Speed 8 [0] Move 8 [0] Dodge 13
Damage 1d / 2d BL 39 Fright Check 19

Social Background [0]
TL: 8 [0]
Cultural Familiarities: Western (Native) [0]
Languages: English (Native) (Native Language) [0]

Advantages [140]
Ambidexterity [5]; Catfall [10]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Daredevil [15]; Enhanced Dodge 1 [15]; Enhanced Parry (All Parries) 1 [10];
Fearlessness 3 [6]; Fit [5]; High Pain Threshold [10];
Perfect Balance [15]; Trained By A Master [30]

Perks: Off-Hand Weapon Training (Smallsword) [1];
Style Familiarity: Boxing [1]; Style Familiarity: Escrima [1]; Swinging [1]

Super Senses [173]
Discriminatory Hearing (Passive Biological, -5%) [15]; Discriminatory Smell (Emotion Sense, +50%; Passive Biological, -5%) [22]; Discriminatory Taste (Passive Biological, -5%) [10]; Para-Radar (Extended Arc: 360, +125%; Super, -10%) [86]; Parabolic Hearing 3 (Passive Biological, -5%) [12]; Sensitive Touch (Stethoscopic, +50%; Ultra-Fine, +30%; Passive Biological, -5%) [18]; Robust Hearing [1]; Vibration Sense (Passive Biological, -5%) [10]

Disadvantages [-208]
Blindness [-50]; Charitable (9) [-22]; Code of Honor (Hero's) [-10]; Flashbacks (Mild) [-5]; Guilt Complex [-5]; Light Sleeper [-5]; Obsession: Eliminate Organized Crime (Long-Term Goal) (9) [-15]; On The Edge (9) [-22]; Pacifism (Cannot Harm Innocents) [-10]; Secret Identity (Imprisonment) [-20]; Selfless (9) [-7]; Sense of Duty: Residents of Hell's Kitchen (Large Group) [-10]; Social Stigma (Blind) [-5]; Susceptible to Loud Noises -5 [-20].

Quirks: Habit: Downplays his Blindness [-1]; Likes to Help Underdogs [-1].

Skills [83]
Acrobatics (H) DX+1 [4] 19*; Area Knowledge (Hell's Kitchen) (E) IQ [1] 14; Armoury/TL8 (Melee Weapons) IQ-1 [1] 13; Boxing (A) DX+2 [12] 20; Boxing Sport (A) DX [1] 18; Climbing (A) DX [1] 17; Detect Lies (H) Per [4] 15; Flail (H) DX+1 [4] 19; Games (Boxing) (E) IQ [1] 14; Holdout (A) IQ-1 [1] 13; Intimidation (A) Will [2] 14; Jumping (E) DX [1] 18; Karate (H) DX+2 [12] 20; Law (New York City) (H) IQ [4] 14; Lockpicking/TL8 (A) IQ [1] 13; Main-Gauche (A) DX+2 [7] 20; Observation (A) Per-1 [1] 15; Pressure Points (H) IQ-2 [1] 12; Shadowing (A) IQ [2] 14; Smallsword (A) DX+2 [8] 20; Stealth (A) DX+1 [4] 19; Streetwise (A) IQ [2] 14; Thrown Weapon (Stick) (E) DX+2 [4] 20; Tracking (A) Per+2 [8] 17

* Includes +1 from Perfect Balance; Defaulted from Boxing; Defaulted from Smallsword

Relationship [-13]
Contact: Ben Urich (Daily Bugle Reporter) (Effective Skill 15; Usually Reliable; Frequency: 9 or less) [4];
Contact: Underworld (Effective Skill 12; Unreliable; Frequency: 12 or less) [1];
Dependent and Ally: Foggy Nelson (25% of total; Frequency: 9 or less) [-9];
Dependent and Ally: Karen Page (25% of total; Frequency: 9 or less) [-9];
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