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Old 10-01-2017, 11:29 AM   #21
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

Considering Lifting ST is what's needed for grappling, I'm not sure she has Striking ST, I think she has a lot of ST period
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Considering Lifting ST is what's needed for grappling, I'm not sure she has Striking ST, I think she has a lot of ST period
I don't have the book, but does Technical Grappling give some means to arbitrage skill for effective ST?
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

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I don't have the book, but does Technical Grappling give some means to arbitrage skill for effective ST?
Yes and so does the skills in GURPS Basic.
GURPS Basic gives a +1 or +2 depending on skill and level.
Technical Grappling gives a bonus using different levels.
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Old 10-01-2017, 07:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

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What are the strongest hits/lifts/grapples she used in movies or toons or comics? She is clearly a strong fit woman (olympoc gymnast?) but not necessarily to any extremes.
The most I've seen her do is a Judo Throw of a person roughly twice her weight, which isn't at all superhuman as the guy didn't go flying more than a few feet. (If anything, it was just an "eat the floor" move.)

Some folks put her roughly at Captain America's strength, due to having received a similar "super-soldier" treatment in the comics (in the comics, she was born in or before 1945, depending on if the story has her an infant, toddler, or teenager at the end of WWII during the post-German-surrender Pacific campaigns). Unlike Bucky Barnes/the Winter Soldier (who was defrosted to teach her combat), Nat didn't undergo cryostasis in the comics.
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Old 10-01-2017, 07:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

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What are the strongest hits/lifts/grapples she used in movies or toons or comics? She is clearly a strong fit woman (olympoc gymnast?) but not necessarily to any extremes.

Matching stats like those has a problem in Gurps because of the effect of Extra Effort and Will as the Widow has an exceptional Will.

I'm afraid you're in "pick a reasonable looking number" area possibly based on what you think she can lift without Extra Effort.

<shrug> Maybe a 13.
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Old 10-02-2017, 03:21 PM   #26
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Given how hot she is, she must have reduced aging or something if she did not do cryo. Wasn't that super serum kind of a retcon they added recently? I thought she was original like Hawkeye, just really good but no chemistry.
It was a relatively recent retcon when someone with an eye to continuity (those are rare nowadays) looked through old Captain America and Wolverine issues and noted she was an infant in WWII. Add to that the sliding time scale which now puts Fantastic Four v1 #1 (cover date Dec 1961) - the start of the "modern" era - taking place in 2002 ("fifteen years ago"). Her being an infant in WWII worked in her '60s appearances and even in her '70s and '80s appearances, when her full background was detailed in Avengers and Daredevil (she co-starred with DD in his San Francisco days). A similar treatment (the "Infinity formula") was applied to Nick Fury in the '80s when it became obvious he was getting too old to have served in WWII, yet they didn't want to alter his WWII adventures as they wouldn't have worked in 'Nam.

Movie!Widow is not a recipient of any serum. Comics!Widow is, with details retconned in as needed to keep the sliding time scale solvent.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:03 PM   #27
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I just wish they did this to the F4 as well, kept Reed's WW2 history. I could see how being elastic/rock/fire might reduce your aging.

Being able to make invisible force fields less so, might need some other explanation for Sue. Maybe the Sub-Mariner injected her with some kind if life extension serum?
That would still require the FF to be active ~40 years before any of the other Marvel mainstays like Spidey and core Avengers. There's also the little detail of guys like Iron Man and Punisher having 'Nam in their origin stories that require them to be in their 60s. At least.

Better to just ignore the fussy details and not constantly retcon to satisfy the condensed timeline of the real world if they don't want to do a full retcon like DC does at least every 20 years if not more often. It all starts very contrived.
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:02 PM   #28
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That would still require the FF to be active ~40 years before any of the other Marvel mainstays like Spidey and core Avengers. There's also the little detail of guys like Iron Man and Punisher having 'Nam in their origin stories that require them to be in their 60s. At least.

Better to just ignore the fussy details and not constantly retcon to satisfy the condensed timeline of the real world if they don't want to do a full retcon like DC does at least every 20 years if not more often. It all starts very contrived.
While Iron Man was originally in 'Nam, even before the movie they were moving to have him getting injured over in Afghanistan. It wouldn't surprise me if they go the Afghanistan route with Punisher in the comics as well; I seem to recall that Marvel-Netflix!Punisher is an Afghanistan vet. The two wars are quite similar in how they're handled, with lots of bug hunts rather than straight-up fights, so the difference in terrain is the only part needed to alter.

(Say it with me: "Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave! With a box of scraps!")
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"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting

Last edited by Phantasm; 11-05-2017 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:24 PM   #29
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

But there is a massive difference in how Vietnam vets were treated by civilians at large as Afghanistan. Still not that well but a big one in terms of scale of crappiness.
But PTSD is PTSD regardless of the war, decade, or century.
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:48 PM   #30
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Default Re: Trying to make Black Widow

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But there is a massive difference in how Vietnam vets were treated by civilians at large as Afghanistan. Still not that well but a big one in terms of scale of crappiness.
But PTSD is PTSD regardless of the war, decade, or century.
However, Tony Stark had his Vietnamese adventure as a civilian consultant, and didn't have the experience of frontline combat or guerrilla warfare. And he was back from Nam and flying around in an iron suit early enough so that the anti-war protests hadn't really taken off. I think he was there when Kennedy was still in the White House, and buddy buddy with the South Vietnamese Catholic despots, and anticommunism was a widespread American attitude even among liberals.
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