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Old 09-13-2019, 08:17 PM   #11
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
H
it's just blunt trauma, reworked because the blunt trauma rules were really designed for guns and don't produce sane results for melee weapons.
The Blunt Trauma rules don't reality check very well for guns either. I know of cases where non-pentrating pistol hits on LEO vests have sent the wearer to the hospital for 3 days.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:38 PM   #12
Plane
 
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
The Blunt Trauma rules don't reality check very well for guns either. I know of cases where non-pentrating pistol hits on LEO vests have sent the wearer to the hospital for 3 days.
I guess 10-19 damage doing a mere 1HP might not qualify for that? "Hits" sounds like multiple shots though.

Given you're lucky to get back 1 HP per day (IF you make a HT roll) going to hospital to get whatever benefits possible is probably a good precaution even if it was just 1 or 2 HP.

Maybe similar rules to cutting could be used, where we perceive this as damage which passed the DR but which didn't surpass 2xDR so the remainder got converted to crushing? Just maybe not at a 1:1 ratio like with cutting?
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:10 AM   #13
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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I guess 10-19 damage doing a mere 1HP might not qualify for that? "Hits" sounds like multiple shots though.
"Hits" is "I know of multiple cases where things like this happened".

The specific case I had in mind was a traffic stop where a police officer was shot when he went up to the car he stopped. The officer fell down and did not get back up in time to do anything about the perp as he drove away.

You can try invoking Critical Hits to explain this sort of thing but the effects do not really amtch up well.
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:04 AM   #14
Rupert
 
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
"Hits" is "I know of multiple cases where things like this happened".

The specific case I had in mind was a traffic stop where a police officer was shot when he went up to the car he stopped. The officer fell down and did not get back up in time to do anything about the perp as he drove away.

You can try invoking Critical Hits to explain this sort of thing but the effects do not really amtch up well.
A 9x19mm bullet has about the same momentum, very roughly, as a fist from a basic punch without the whole body behind it. Such punches to the body usually don't cause a lot of what GURPS would call Hit Point damage, but do put people on the ground fairly often (especially if they weren't expecting the blow). It's not surprising that a non-penetrating bullet hit would do the same, given most police-grade body armour doesn't have a huge amount of padding to soak and spread momentum. GURPS doesn't really have rules for getting the wind knocked out of you by a gut or solar plexus punch or something similar. Most games don't.
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
You can try invoking Critical Hits to explain this sort of thing but the effects do not really amtch up well.
Sounds reminiscent of knockback DX fail paired with a Mental Stun for being unprepared for combat.

But... that's an outsider looking in/single instance/here's how I'd try to emulate it "explanation".

AS has been mentioned repeatedly, GURPS doesn't emulate reality, it fudges and tries to keep your suspenders of disbelief from snapping.
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Old 09-14-2019, 03:44 PM   #16
Plane
 
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
a police officer was shot when he went up to the car he stopped.
The officer fell down
A long hospital stay might partly be due to additional HP damage suffered from the fall itself?

Perhaps what happened was he suffered 1 HP of blunt force trauma from taking 10 small-piercing damage to armor worn overtop his vitals/abdomen (MA137: Solar Plexus) so that it didn't need to be a major wound to force a knockdown check that was failed?

If it was to the chest (upper torso) then unfortunately since piercing attacks can't cause knockbacks (without a special enhancement anyway... should guns have that?) it can't really be dealt with without using a special rule like cutting weapons enjoy where damage just barely passing the DR gets converted to crushing (and thus able to cause knockback)
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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If it was to the chest (upper torso) then unfortunately since piercing attacks can't cause knockbacks (without a special enhancement anyway... should guns have that?) it can't really be dealt with without using a special rule like cutting weapons enjoy where damage just barely passing the DR gets converted to crushing (and thus able to cause knockback)
Handguns should not be doing knockback. They simply don't have the momentum.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:11 PM   #18
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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Handguns should not be doing knockback. They simply don't have the momentum.
P class weapons don't do knockback in 4e. Even in 3e it had to be 30pts+ to produce knockback from bullets.
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:06 PM   #19
Plane
 
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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Handguns should not be doing knockback. They simply don't have the momentum.
Wouldn't knockback be proportionate to the recoil? I've seen vids of people getting hit in the face from the recoil of firing a magnum, maybe those kinds of rounds might be able to knock back small animals with 3 HP a yard?

Somewhere out there someone is doing some kind of pressure sensor test comparing a punch to a bulletproof vest compared to a slug to a bulletproof vest...
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: Rounding DR and AD

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Wouldn't knockback be proportionate to the recoil? I've seen vids of people getting hit in the face from the recoil of firing a magnum, maybe those kinds of rounds might be able to knock back small animals with 3 HP a yard?
A typical 9x19mm might be 7.45g at 360m/s for a total of 2.682kg*m/s.

Knocking something a yard depends on how long it takes to fall over and how much it skids when it hits the ground. For a human size target it's about 2m/s.

In general, anything capable of being knocked back by a bullet will disintegrate when hit by one.
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