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Old 07-11-2018, 12:06 AM   #1
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

I just wanted to introduce a new limitation called Threshold-Limited. When applied to an ability, it gives a limitation worth -10% per point of threshold that a character gains when using the ability (sustained abilities give the character the full value for the first minute and half value, rounded up, for every additional minute). Characters are capable of accepting 30 points of threshold before they have to make a calamity check and lose 8 points of threshold every day.

Threshold-Limited, 1 point of threshold from using the ability (-10%) is one of the two limitations associated with the Threshold Source, the other being Requires IQ roll (-10%). In total, the Threshold Source is worth -20%, and it is capable of being used with any power associated with the Magical Source (plus Anti-Magic). Characters who use abilities associated with the Threshold Source are capable of ignoring the requirement for mana because they manipulate reality through visualization, but they must perfectly visualize their desires and risk being punished by reality for their hubris.

What do you think? Would you use the Threshold-Limited limitation or the Threshold Source for Powers?
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
What do you think? Would you use the Threshold-Limited limitation or the Threshold Source for Powers?
Seems like a nice idea... Could you show an example maybe?
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

So, we have a character with Burning Attack 15d (Jet, +0%; Threshold, -20%) [60]. Before each attack, they would be required to make an IQ roll to visualize their attack and, if successful, would gain one point of threshold before rolling to attack. They would be able to tolerate up to 30 threshold before reality started objecting to their actions.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:54 PM   #4
mr beer
 
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
So, we have a character with Burning Attack 15d (Jet, +0%; Threshold, -20%) [60]. Before each attack, they would be required to make an IQ roll to visualize their attack and, if successful, would gain one point of threshold before rolling to attack. They would be able to tolerate up to 30 threshold before reality started objecting to their actions.
With IQ 10 they can make 60 attacks before being tapped out for 4 days but I imagine PCs will tend to increase their IQ roll to avoid this being more than a minor nuisance, though say +4 IQ for 80 points solely to aid this roll would be false economy. But anyway potential -20% may be too big a point break in some games.

Will Talent add to the IQ roll? Can PCs buy an IQ roll bonus e.g. +1 for 5%?

EDIT

I like the idea of Threshold being an official modifier BTW. Seems to fit a lot of character concepts well.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

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Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
With IQ 10 they can make 60 attacks before being tapped out for 4 days but I imagine PCs will tend to increase their IQ roll to avoid this being more than a minor nuisance, though say +4 IQ for 80 points solely to aid this roll would be false economy. But anyway potential -20% may be too big a point break in some games.

Will Talent add to the IQ roll? Can PCs buy an IQ roll bonus e.g. +1 for 5%?

EDIT

I like the idea of Threshold being an official modifier BTW. Seems to fit a lot of character concepts well.
No, I think that I was not clear enough. They gain threshold everything that they succeed in an IQ roll to visualize their attack, meaning that they get 29 attacks before their threshold reaches dangerous levels. They can keep going, but they must make a calamity check at 30 points of threshold, with a +1 for every five points of threshold beyond 30. The IQ roll is just a canon limitation of Requires (Attribute) roll.

The calamity check is what make threshold dangerous (you cannot 'exhaust' threshold, you can only dig yourself into a deeper hole). At 30 points of threshold, you have a 50% chance of suffering Nightmares (9) for 4d nights on an average roll. At 40 points of threshold, you have have a 50% chance of suffering a threshold reduction of 4d+10 for 1d weeks on an average roll (meaning that your threshold could drop to an average of 6, meaning that your 40 points of threshold will give +7 to you calamity rolls for the next 1d weeks. At 50 points of threshold, you have a 50% chance of suffering a critical failure on every threshold related activity for the next 1d+1 weeks. And it just keeps getting worse.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:09 AM   #6
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

GURPS Horror already covers this. If you read Power Corrupts (pp.146–147, stopping just before the sample Corruption system), you'll see that the power tally used by Threshold-Limited Magic is a kind of Corruption, which means that the Corrupting limitation on p.22 is what you'd use to cause an Advantage to generate Tally when used.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
GURPS Horror already covers this. If you read Power Corrupts (pp.146–147, stopping just before the sample Corruption system), you'll see that the power tally used by Threshold-Limited Magic is a kind of Corruption, which means that the Corrupting limitation on p.22 is what you'd use to cause an Advantage to generate Tally when used.
Its a good call but doesnt really work the way the Op wanted.
I have been reading this thread but still not really decided how I feel about it. I like the idea but not sure its worth an additional limitation compared to costs FP. Anymore than Threshold is not a limitation on Magery, its just changing the parameters from tactical to a more strategic option.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:40 AM   #8
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Its a good call but doesnt really work the way the Op wanted.
Doesn't it? Applying a Limitation to an Ability causes it to build up a tally toward a Threshold when used; that's exactly what his proposed Threshold-Limited limitation would do.

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I have been reading this thread but still not really decided how I feel about it. I like the idea but not sure its worth an additional limitation compared to costs FP. Anymore than Threshold is not a limitation on Magery, its just changing the parameters from tactical to a more strategic option.
And that's basically what the point of the aforementioned Power Corrupts section is. Indeed, the original draft that I submitted suggested that if you wanted an Ability to generate Tally or Spiritual Distortion or any other sort of Corruption, you should apply one or more levels of Costs Fatigue and then apply the alternate system in question (in this case, Threshold-Limited) to convert that FP cost into a Corruption build-up (in this case, Tally).
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:44 AM   #9
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

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Doesn't it? Applying a Limitation to an Ability causes it to build up a tally toward a Threshold when used; that's exactly what his proposed Threshold-Limited limitation would do.
The Corruption is based on the amount of points saved with the limitation. You could add FP to the mix of course and I guess change the Threshold Tally to get the desired results.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: New Limitation: Threshold-Limited

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The Corruption is based on the amount of points saved with the limitation.
Yeah, I know. One of the other playtesters didn't like the way that Costs Fatigue isn't based on the amount of points saved with the limitation, and proposed Corrupting as an alternative that works the way he thought Costs Fatigue should work. It struck me as a bad move at the time (rules in official products should strive for consistency with existing rules, and leave tweaks like this up to house-ruling); but it made it into the final product, so we're stuck with it. As I said though, what the OP is asking for (a Limitation that causes an Ability to generate Tally) already exists in the game.

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You could add FP to the mix of course and I guess change the Threshold Tally to get the desired results.
Exactly.
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