New Reality Seeds

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Gedrin

I was thinking more about Centrum's "party line". It's the sort of society that has an official view of things. Like you point out, democracies seem to be better off than their competitors...while they last. The latter part seems like the point where Centrum would object. While ideologically different, both societies produce good ends. Centrum's superior view of the arc of history let's them see the eventual failure and its dire consequences.

When Homeline thinks of democracy, it thinks of the most recent global democratic power, The United States of America.
When Centrum thinks of democracy, it thinks of the same thing...the fall of Rome and near death of the West.

You could argue that those are vastly different, but Centrum has about as much experience with USAs as they do with Weimar Republics.

I know that GURPS cites Centrum thinking of democracy as something associated with ancient republics, but by this point, many decades after parachronics was invented (might even be a century), they would probably associate it more with crosstime democracies. Especially as Centrum has little interest in its own history - and there are so many crosstime English-speaking democracies.

There are a lot of shaky democracies, or even failed democracies, in the multiverse, but there seem to be a lot of working ones, too. Especially if you take in flawed democracies like segregationist America on Gernsback (even the CSA has some democracy in it).

And the example of Secundus would just loom very large. It's not just that it's Centrum's equal and opposite; there are also the echoes. Most of them are obviously pre-democratic, but the most advanced ones have democracies. And Centrum knows where the earlier echoes would be going, if not for Centran intervention.


The Centrans who deal with democracies, Interworld agents and the like, are all among the best of the best, top agents and high ranking individuals. So, to them, democracy might look a lot less appealing than to a Status 0 peon overseeing refuse dumping on Omega.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by johndallman

This needs a bit of revision. Between 1792 and 1815, the British had fought the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars, resulting in a highly developed military, and had been fighting smaller colonial wars since then.

Could go the Cornwallis route and have no American Revolution mean no French Revolution, and thus a lot less fighting by the British.

[scc]

Originally Posted by fchase8

I know that GURPS cites Centrum thinking of democracy as something associated with ancient republics, but by this point, many decades after parachronics was invented (might even be a century), they would probably associate it more with crosstime democracies. Especially as Centrum has little interest in its own history - and there are so many crosstime English-speaking democracies.

There are a lot of shaky democracies, or even failed democracies, in the multiverse, but there seem to be a lot of working ones, too. Especially if you take in flawed democracies like segregationist America on Gernsback (even the CSA has some democracy in it).

And the example of Secundus would just loom very large. It's not just that it's Centrum's equal and opposite; there are also the echoes. Most of them are obviously pre-democratic, but the most advanced ones have democracies. And Centrum knows where the earlier echoes would be going, if not for Centran intervention.


The Centrans who deal with democracies, Interworld agents and the like, are all among the best of the best, top agents and high ranking individuals. So, to them, democracy might look a lot less appealing than to a Status 0 peon overseeing refuse dumping on Omega.

Actually, personally, I think that Interworld is more likely to tow the party line in this case, democracies for some reason tend towards imperialism and Interworld is likely to write of the success of Homeline due to it's access to the infinite worlds

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by scc

Actually, personally, I think that Interworld is more likely to tow the party line in this case, democracies for some reason tend towards imperialism and Interworld is likely to write of the success of Homeline due to it's access to the infinite worlds

Centrum would probably not have a problem with imperialism. They believe that all peoples should be united into one culture and one society under one government. That pretty much means imperialism, with an added iron hand of assimilation.

Now, imperialism to our mind involves heavy racism, but Centrum probably separates the racism and the expansionism mentally.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by scc

Actually, personally, I think that Interworld is more likely to tow the party line in this case, democracies for some reason tend towards imperialism and Interworld is likely to write of the success of Homeline due to it's access to the infinite worlds

Just as an FYI (and I don't mean to be snarky...), the proper phrase is "toe the line." In a lot of the elementary schools in the 19th Century, teachers took attendance twice a day (morning and after lunch) by having students stand in an orderly formation, with their toes touching lines on the floor, and respond when their names were called.

Also, during the Age of Sail, the British Royal Navy had sailors line up for inspection, and used the grooves in the deck planking to keep the lines straight. Since most of the British sailors, back then, served while barefoot, their toes touched the lines between the planks.

Sorry for the exposition, but while that's only a mild pet peeve, it is (nonetheless) a pet peeve.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by scc

Actually, personally, I think that Interworld is more likely to tow the party line in this case, democracies for some reason tend towards imperialism and Interworld is likely to write of the success of Homeline due to it's access to the infinite worlds

Good point - Centrum might view Secundus' success as only because it can access other worlds. In classic Centrum self-centered thinking, they could think that Secundus just got parachronics by 'luck of the draw' of the nature of its worldline - while on Centrum, parachronics was due to hard work and the timeline's inherent superior philosphy.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Centrum would probably not have a problem with imperialism. They believe that all peoples should be united into one culture and one society under one government. That pretty much means imperialism, with an added iron hand of assimilation.

Now, imperialism to our mind involves heavy racism, but Centrum probably separates the racism and the expansionism mentally.

Centrum does have a history of racist imperialism. I always thought that GURPS glossed over too much the idea that, even after Centran meritocratic reunification, racism and resent over racism would still exist. Especially as the 'saviors' were from the (presumably) Caucasian Terraustralis, looking to essentially recreate a form of the white-run Anglo-French Empire.

Though perhaps Centrans who are racist, or resentful about past racism (even if justifiably so), don't advance as high in Centrum - or certainly aren't employed by Interworld and the like. So the Centrans encountered by Infinity characters are the most 'politically correct' ones.

And exposure to other worlds would create some sort of 'us' mindset across Centrum - especially as now even the worst-off Centran has a whole group of people that they are better than. GURPS did note that there was anti-Indentured prejudice. One could imagine Centrans in less well-off parts of their world, such as the tropics, still looking down on Indentureds brought in to work in their region (a-la poor white segregationist Southern antagonism being directed towards poor blacks, and not rich whites).


Centrum probably views imperialism as something it can 'handle,' as opposed to the likes of religion & democracy. Interworld agents believe that they can reform industrialized & racist empires from the inside, such as alternate British Empires or the CSA. Even view imperialism as a 'necessary evil' step on the way to world government.

[Astromancer]

Try this idea. A known agent of the Cabal, active on a echo of Homeline in the year 1980, seems to have cast I spell on Joan Beaz. Under this spell she showed up at the Dakota and prevented the assassination of John Lennon. Basically she grabbed the gunman's arms, forced his arms up, and shouted "He's trying to shoot Yoko!!"

John did the rest.

Homeline likes this, but Cabal agents don't pull highly visible stunts involving multiple celebrities without a good reason. Why use a famous singer to save Lennon? Any street bum would have done as well with far fewer complications.

Meanwhile President elect Reagan hasn't been seen in public for days. Is there a link?

[PTTG]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this idea. A known agent of the Cabal, active on a echo of Homeline in the year 1980, seems to have cast I spell on Joan Beaz. Under this spell she showed up at the Dakota and prevented the assassination of John Lennon. Basically she grabbed the gunman's arms, forced his arms up, and shouted "He's trying to shoot Yoko!!"

John did the rest.

Homeline likes this, but Cabal agents don't pull highly visible stunts involving multiple celebrities without a good reason. Why use a famous singer to save Lennon? Any street bum would have done as well with far fewer complications.

Meanwhile President elect Reagan hasn't been seen in public for days. Is there a link?

Interesting. Where is it going?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Interesting. Where is it going?

That depends on what really happened. Is this a major move by the Cabal to take over the West through secret chants hidden on a Beatles reunion album? Was the Cabalist simply a mega fanboy and decided to save his favorite Beatle and yet and old crush new publicity? Is it all a diversion?

Reagan could be ill in a natural way. But then saving John Lennon, a symbol of sixties radicalism, might be the best way to doom/cruse Reagan, a symbol of eighties reaction.

Much of the fun would be letting the PCs snare themselves in their own conspiracy ideas.

[Astromancer]

Try this one. Caligula. just before his assassination, planed to move to Alexandria, were the locals worshiped Pharaohs as gods. Some folks think this caused the assassination as the Romans didn't want to lose the status of capitol of the empire.

Picture a world were Caligula makes it away taking his wife, children, and Uncle Claudius, with him. Caligula focuses on being a god and gets Claudius to run things. Claudius marries a local woman and has children.

Some years after the moves Caligula and his family, while visiting southern shrines, get caught in an epidemic, and are wiped out.

The Praetorian guard makes Claudius Emperor, as in Homeline's history. Claudius, liking the climate, and in love with his wife, stays put in Egypt. As do his children. He still conquers Britain, and his son Britannicus follows him as Emperor.

One hundred and fifty years later, 220AD in our terms, Alexandria is the center of a vastly richer Roman Empire. Having dug a canal to link the Nile with the Red Sea, Claudius makes Alexandria the center of all Mediterranean trade and Indian Ocean trade. Claudius, under his wife's famously eccentric influence, set the Libraries scholars to researching practical uses for human knowledge (an unheard of eccentricity) and pushed the development of means to mass produce books!

Basically a Rome with a mixture of TL3/TL4, and Clockpunk tech. A wilder Rome with more and better links to India Ulterterrestia! Centrum, because of their capacities in Greek and Latin, is more active here. However, it's the Cabalists who seem to be crawling all over the place.

Why do they seek the Tomb of Alexander the Great? Why do they whisper of Gog and Magog?