Timing of Shift and Defend Option

[Brazen Hussey]

My understanding of the TFT rules is that the action half of a character's turn always goes off in order of adjDX. For me that works fine with all the other options, but I'm not sure about Defend.


Here's the real life example that prompted this post!

B has a one point higher adjDX than A.
round one
B Attacks and misses A
A Attacks, hits and does 5 points of damage to B
B now has -2 to their DX

round two
B feels like the odds are against them and would like to Defend
A points out that their Attack will go off prior to B's Defend and so it will be pointless

This made me realize that IF Defend goes off in adjDX order, and IF the Defend action does not extend until the next time the defending character chooses an action on the next round, then a lower adjDX character will never choose to Defend. Which I don't like because it removes an interesting choice: do I play it safe and Defend? Or do I go for an Attack and hope to get lucky?

So, is my interpretation of the rule wrong?

If my interpretation is correct, then which is probably the best way to house-rule it for maximum happiness in this house? Either Defend could activate at the start of the round or it could extend into the following round until the defending character comes up in order again.

I expect everyone will either think I'm nuts and making a mountain from a mole hill or that my interpretation is wrong and no one else ever had this problem.

Cheers!

[larsdangly]

I believe the universal consensus among people who have played a significant amount of TFT is that a combatant may elect to defend any time they like (assuming it is a valid action for them on that turn), including when a higher adjDX combatant aims a melee attack at them. Same goes with dodging missiles from higher adjDX foes. I feel like there is at least one vaguely worded passage in the rules that says this is o.k., but I can't put my fingers on it at the moment. Regardless, this is the standard practice.

[Brazen Hussey]

Thanks, Lars. It felt like something like that must be the case, or at least it was my natural instinct to work it that way. But when one is learning a game and trying very hard to be R.A.W., these things will crop up.

Possibly S.J. Esq. will collect all these bits and pieces, add a little renovation, and publish the All New Ed. TFT in a couple years so we can all line up with monies previously intended for a charity or retirement fund once again.

[Axly Suregrip]

I second what Lars said. And yes I too cannot find it in the rules. But the example in Melee (pg 24, see turn 7) is exactly what Lars was saying.

[Steve Plambeck]

As Defend is defined as parrying an enemy Attack, it would have to come at the precise moment of that Attack or it would never make any sense. The rules are worded a bit clearer where Dodge is concerned, stating it's something you choose during movement, and movement always comes before the action rounds begin. The same intent seems to have been attached to Defend all along: "shift one hex (or stand still) and defend". Of course in both cases you still get to change options on your turn to act if you meet any necessary conditions. You couldn't change Defend to something else after using it to make your attacker roll 4 dice instead of 3.

My guess would be most if not all of us always treated certain of the options not as actions, but rather as reactions; your opponent forces you to announce what you're doing on their turn to act instead of you getting or having to wait for yours.

If you look under the optional rule Waiting for an Opening, that's where there's an example within the rules showing Defend used as a reaction to an enemy action.

[JimmyPlenty]

Originally Posted by Brazen Hussey

round two
B feels like the odds are against them and would like to Defend
A points out that their Attack will go off prior to B's Defend and so it will be pointless

This made me realize that IF Defend goes off in adjDX order,

I think this is the part this giving you problems. You have declared this action during the movement phase. It is in the books that this is what the character is doing. Any opponent attacking with melee will be rolling 4 dice against you no matter your DX at the time. It does not go off during the action phase.

[hcobb]

I declare defend during movement but nobody attacks me (there are easier targets out there) so when my turn to act comes I change to an attack option.

[larsdangly]

That's tricksy! But it is their own fault for listening to you. You are basically looking at your Bishop and wiggling their eye brows when they should be asking themselves what your Rook might get up to along the back row...

[Brazen Hussey]

Very nice, hcobb! I suppose that's all legal and I'm all for it. Especially when I'm using it against players.

[hcobb]

The way to avoid Defend abuse is to engage the enemy (so they can't Dodge) and Defend while your crossbow snipers take them out.

ST 6, DX 12, IQ 14, MA 10
Silver Main-Gauche-staff and Silver Main-Gauche
Fencer, Staff-III, Literacy. (Was raised by wolves, er humans (same thing) so native tongue is Humanish, giving a minus one reaction from "real" goblins.)
Carries a wizard's chest and a big book of IQ 14 and less non-combat spells.

Double parry stops six hits, attacker is at DX -1 and needs to roll five dice to hit. (I.e. needs to have base DX 13 or higher to have better than an auto chance of hitting, with very small chance of double or triple damage results.)

Insert animated gif of a goblin dual wielding a pair of sharpened silver sai here.