TFT Defense - Page 4

Infornific · 01-19-2018, 07:18 PM

How about an optional improved defense for high adjDX characters? Something that doesn't change the base mechanics much. So...

A character with an adjDX of 15 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 5d to hit.

A character with an adjDX of 18 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d or 5d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 6d to hit.

A character with an adjDX of 22 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d, 5d or 5d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 7d to hit.

Etc.

So high DX characters have the option of using their superior DX to defend but at the cost of a reduced chance to hit. And there's no extra roll for defense.

For a more granular option, a character with an adjDX of 15+ may fight defensively, taking a penalty to hit that applies to both himself and his opponent. The penalty cannot reduce adjDX below 14 (or maybe 12 - whatever feels right.) So for example a character with adjDX of 18 might choose a penalty of -4 so he has to roll vs adjDX 14 but his opponent also attacks at -4.

You could use a similar mechanic for spell casting and resisted spells.

JLV · 01-20-2018, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infornific

How about an optional improved defense for high adjDX characters? Something that doesn't change the base mechanics much. So...

A character with an adjDX of 15 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 5d to hit.

A character with an adjDX of 18 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d or 5d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 6d to hit.

A character with an adjDX of 22 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d, 5d or 5d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 7d to hit.

Etc.

So high DX characters have the option of using their superior DX to defend but at the cost of a reduced chance to hit. And there's no extra roll for defense.

For a more granular option, a character with an adjDX of 15+ may fight defensively, taking a penalty to hit that applies to both himself and his opponent. The penalty cannot reduce adjDX below 14 (or maybe 12 - whatever feels right.) So for example a character with adjDX of 18 might choose a penalty of -4 so he has to roll vs adjDX 14 but his opponent also attacks at -4.

You could use a similar mechanic for spell casting and resisted spells.

How do you visualize this tying in with the existing DEFEND option?

larsdangly · 01-20-2018, 01:52 PM

I kind of like the idea of following the pattern that is already in the set of talents from ITL, where you trade a talent point investment for either: improved damage (e.g., Unarmed Combat I), or improved adj.DX (e.g., Missile Weapons), or improved critical threshold (e.g., Fencing), improved armor protection (Veteran or one mode of Two Weapons), any of a number of special attack modes (various, including many peculiar weapons), OR raising the number of dice a foe must roll to hit you (Unarmed Combat III, IV or V). My game-designer instinct is that when you have a heavily play tested system that works well and is already familiar, your best way to introduce new variants is to directly pattern them off of things that are part of your system.

Thus, if you want to improve defense for highly skilled combatants, they should be able to gain the higher die roll mechanic of UC III, IV and/or V, either as some sort of stand alone talent or (my preference) folding this into talents such as Fencing.

For example, a revised Fencing talent might offer you two choices (much as Two Weapons does): EITHER have enhanced probability of a 2x or 3x damage attack OR force your foes to roll 1 additional die to hit you. This is a very subtle edit and accomplishes what people on this thread are looking for.

I'd say it is a better approach for a revision to the published game than my house rule parry rules, simply because it is a parsimonious tweak based on existing mechanics rather than a while new sub-system. I hesitate to suggest this without having play tested what I'm suggesting, but I'm confident it would be successful based on its similarity to things already in the game.

p.s., what I'm suggesting is not so different from what is given above, it just demands you invest some talent points to 'unlock' this advantage; i.e., Fencing and the various levels of Unarmed Combat all impose DX and IQ prerequisites not so different from the rules suggested above.

larsdangly · 01-20-2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLV

How do you visualize this tying in with the existing DEFEND option?

I would follow the pattern in UC III, IV and V: when you defend the attacker(s) roll one additional die.

JLV · 01-20-2018, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I kind of like the idea of following the pattern that is already in the set of talents from ITL, where you trade a talent point investment for either: improved damage (e.g., Unarmed Combat I), or improved adj.DX (e.g., Missile Weapons), or improved critical threshold (e.g., Fencing), improved armor protection (Veteran or one mode of Two Weapons), any of a number of special attack modes (various, including many peculiar weapons), OR raising the number of dice a foe must roll to hit you (Unarmed Combat III, IV or V). My game-designer instinct is that when you have a heavily play tested system that works well and is already familiar, your best way to introduce new variants is to directly pattern them off of things that are part of your system.

Thus, if you want to improve defense for highly skilled combatants, they should be able to gain the higher die roll mechanic of UC III, IV and/or V, either as some sort of stand alone talent or (my preference) folding this into talents such as Fencing.

For example, a revised Fencing talent might offer you two choices (much as Two Weapons does): EITHER have enhanced probability of a 2x or 3x damage attack OR force your foes to roll 1 additional die to hit you. This is a very subtle edit and accomplishes what people on this thread are looking for.

I'd say it is a better approach for a revision to the published game than my house rule parry rules, simply because it is a parsimonious tweak based on existing mechanics rather than a while new sub-system. I hesitate to suggest this without having play tested what I'm suggesting, but I'm confident it would be successful based on its similarity to things already in the game.

p.s., what I'm suggesting is not so different from what is given above, it just demands you invest some talent points to 'unlock' this advantage; i.e., Fencing and the various levels of Unarmed Combat all impose DX and IQ prerequisites not so different from the rules suggested above.

This seems like a reasonable idea to me. In fact, if you wanted to do the same for other Talents, that is; have a more advanced technique for say, Axe, Quarterstaff, or Spear fighting, this seems to me like it would be an excellent path to follow...

larsdangly · 01-20-2018, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLV

This seems like a reasonable idea to me. In fact, if you wanted to do the same for other Talents, that is; have a more advanced technique for say, Axe, Quarterstaff, or Spear fighting, this seems to me like it would be an excellent path to follow...

Exactly. Just a few self-similar talents like this would really open up the possibilities for a diverse array of highly skilled combatants that are tough to hit if you are mook, but match up well with one another.

Infornific · 01-21-2018, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLV

How do you visualize this tying in with the existing DEFEND option?

My memory failed me - for "Parry", read "Defend." So adjDx15 means the Defend option forces opponents making melee attacks to roll against 5d, etc.

JLV · 01-21-2018, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infornific

My memory failed me - for "Parry", read "Defend." So adjDx15 means the Defend option forces opponents making melee attacks to roll against 5d, etc.

Ah, I see. My bad -- I thought you were adding in a new mechanism instead of just using the old one! ;-)

tbeard1999 · 01-22-2018, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

The 13-16 automatic miss is certainly interesting, and could be viable. The initiative order rather than DX order seems like it goes to far, however, making it a crap shoot if heavy armor isn't also worn. Also removes a lot of the feel of a samurai type battle where speed of first strike is a big thing.

Both of them are just ideas and would need playtesting, of course. I haven’t tried them out yet.

larsdangly · 01-22-2018, 09:48 PM

If there was ever a game that required comprehensive play testing for any combat rule change, TFT is it. I don't have a philosophical attachment to any particular approach to these kinds of gritty mechanics, but I can say that the board-game origins of the core system mean you can pretty much wreck the whole thing with one ill advised change.

01-19-2018, 07:18 PM	#31
Infornific Join Date: Dec 2004	Re: TFT Defense How about an optional improved defense for high adjDX characters? Something that doesn't change the base mechanics much. So... A character with an adjDX of 15 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 5d to hit. A character with an adjDX of 18 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d or 5d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 6d to hit. A character with an adjDX of 22 or more has the option of fighting defensively, so that both he and his opponent roll against 4d, 5d or 5d to hit. If he chooses to Parry or Dodge, the opponent has to beat 7d to hit. Etc. So high DX characters have the option of using their superior DX to defend but at the cost of a reduced chance to hit. And there's no extra roll for defense. For a more granular option, a character with an adjDX of 15+ may fight defensively, taking a penalty to hit that applies to both himself and his opponent. The penalty cannot reduce adjDX below 14 (or maybe 12 - whatever feels right.) So for example a character with adjDX of 18 might choose a penalty of -4 so he has to roll vs adjDX 14 but his opponent also attacks at -4. You could use a similar mechanic for spell casting and resisted spells.

01-20-2018, 01:52 PM	#33
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: TFT Defense I kind of like the idea of following the pattern that is already in the set of talents from ITL, where you trade a talent point investment for either: improved damage (e.g., Unarmed Combat I), or improved adj.DX (e.g., Missile Weapons), or improved critical threshold (e.g., Fencing), improved armor protection (Veteran or one mode of Two Weapons), any of a number of special attack modes (various, including many peculiar weapons), OR raising the number of dice a foe must roll to hit you (Unarmed Combat III, IV or V). My game-designer instinct is that when you have a heavily play tested system that works well and is already familiar, your best way to introduce new variants is to directly pattern them off of things that are part of your system. Thus, if you want to improve defense for highly skilled combatants, they should be able to gain the higher die roll mechanic of UC III, IV and/or V, either as some sort of stand alone talent or (my preference) folding this into talents such as Fencing. For example, a revised Fencing talent might offer you two choices (much as Two Weapons does): EITHER have enhanced probability of a 2x or 3x damage attack OR force your foes to roll 1 additional die to hit you. This is a very subtle edit and accomplishes what people on this thread are looking for. I'd say it is a better approach for a revision to the published game than my house rule parry rules, simply because it is a parsimonious tweak based on existing mechanics rather than a while new sub-system. I hesitate to suggest this without having play tested what I'm suggesting, but I'm confident it would be successful based on its similarity to things already in the game. p.s., what I'm suggesting is not so different from what is given above, it just demands you invest some talent points to 'unlock' this advantage; i.e., Fencing and the various levels of Unarmed Combat all impose DX and IQ prerequisites not so different from the rules suggested above.

01-22-2018, 09:48 PM	#40
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: TFT Defense If there was ever a game that required comprehensive play testing for any combat rule change, TFT is it. I don't have a philosophical attachment to any particular approach to these kinds of gritty mechanics, but I can say that the board-game origins of the core system mean you can pretty much wreck the whole thing with one ill advised change.