Using overpenetration rules on shields?

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Hello all!

Does it break something if I allow shields to block bullets, but apply overpenetration rules to the shield according to it's DR and HP, thus allowing a character with a shield similar to Captain America's legendary shield to stop even heavy rounds, or using an ablative DR force field to serve as a hand held shield in exchange for greater DR than full covering (same power in less space), or whatever?

thanks!

[Kale]

I'd allow it. The shield acts more as 'concealment' than cover but might still divert the path of a bullet passing through it a little. The DB bonus would account for that. Against 'barrier blind' ammunition (see High Tech for details) you might want to halve or negate the DB bonus.

[weby]

I do not allow active blocking against bullets unless one has one of the two prereqs needed for precognitive parry.

Further, I use the DB to mean that the shield was hit with you behind it, that is if you succeed by DB or less the shield is hit and you take any remaining damage after the shield is penetrated. I use this for all types of attacks.

Note that the basic set shield DR+Hitpoint values are way too high compared to something like armor DR and thus I use much lower values.

[Lord Azagthoth]

I allow if the defender can see the attacker (they don't react on the approaching bullet but on the attacker himself (squeezing the trigger or other sorts of body language which show their intent when to fire). Maybe even let the defender make a Vision roll modified by Range and Size (of the hand) if you think its more realistic.

[Ulzgoroth]

I'd be hesitant about allowing a proper Block attempt, but definitely would let DB add to a dodge under the damage and overpenetration of shields rules. (Which rules as applied to shields I think are in fact discussed in the Basic Set.)

[Varyon]

From a realism standpoint, you've got two problems with using Block (instead of just using the shield as cover) against bullets. First, getting the shield into position in time is practically more a matter of luck than skill - you need to know where (within the error of your shield size) the foe is actually targeting, which isn't an easy thing to determine at range, and even if you do figure that out, the shooter is going to see you putting the shield in the way and may change where they are targeting. Secondly, Block typically involves angling your shield and/or pushing on the attacker's weapon to push it aside rather than simply absorbing the hit, and again human reaction times (and the sheer speeds you'd need to maneuver the shield at) don't allow for this. The second you can get around by ignoring the "within DB" clause (having overpenetration occur on any Block), but not so much for the former.

From a gamism standpoint, characters with firearms are often already suffering from rather sizable range penalties, but the fact you must rely on heavy armor and/or Dodge, which is controlled by a [15]/level stat (Basic Speed without Basic Move, or Improved Dodge), helps them out. If you're able to use a shield, this means you can concentrate all that armor into a much smaller area - for much less weight - and make use of Block, which is controlled by an Easy skill (Shield) or [5]/level stat (Improved Block).

If you're fine with all of the above concerns, then allowing characters to Block bullets shouldn't "break" anything.

[Kalzazz]

In my Primus Republic campaign I allowed it with a Perk, though in said campaign guns were called at TL 4, and it was vaguely Rome inspired, and in a Rome inspired setting people being awesome with shields is cool

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Originally Posted by Varyon

From a realism standpoint, you've got two problems with using Block (instead of just using the shield as cover) against bullets. First, getting the shield into position in time is practically more a matter of luck than skill - you need to know where (within the error of your shield size) the foe is actually targeting, which isn't an easy thing to determine at range, and even if you do figure that out, the shooter is going to see you putting the shield in the way and may change where they are targeting. Secondly, Block typically involves angling your shield and/or pushing on the attacker's weapon to push it aside rather than simply absorbing the hit, and again human reaction times (and the sheer speeds you'd need to maneuver the shield at) don't allow for this. The second you can get around by ignoring the "within DB" clause (having overpenetration occur on any Block), but not so much for the former.

If you're talking superheroes or supersoldiers with Enhenced Time Sense (and some advanced piece of tech), both limitations in the quote above are a non issue. I should have been clearer that I was talking about superhumans than just an offhand reference to Captain America, my bad.

For character points, they are either spending a lot of them on an advanced technology they are the only ones to possess, or they have a deflective shield which eats battery power from a finite (but renewable) power source when it blocks something (in other words, Ablative DR). In either case, win some, lose some.