Low-Tech Armor - Proposal for some modifications

[DanHoward]

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...&postcount=192

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...&postcount=192

Cool,

cheers

TD

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...&postcount=192

Remind me, were those changes backed up in Low Tech Instant Armor, or are they still officially "house" rules?

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I don't know why they made the thigh protection segmented there, as human anatomy doesn't allow most of that to bend...

The length of the thigh changes as the thigh moves from vertical to horizontal, as you can verify with a straight pin or binder clip and a pair of long pants. Building the cuisse in bands lets it cover more of the thigh without biting into the groin as the wearer moves.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...What I really can't explain is why Brigandine is dramatically better than Segmented Plate and only slightly worse than regular plate, considering that as described it seems to be segmented plate.

If you review the description and look up the examples listed there, you should be able to tell the armour referred to by those two game terms apart. (GURPS Brigandine is cloth or leather covering small plates with similar length and width, Segmented Plate is long narrow plates exposed to view).

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Are you sure that it actually is? Because I have to say that picture is not selling it as anything more than surface styling.

A handy photo of an anime cuirass from the inside showing the leathers is in Heroic Armour of the Italian Renaissance.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

The length of the thigh changes as the thigh moves from vertical to horizontal, as you can verify with a straight pin or binder clip and a pair of long pants. Building the cuisse in bands lets it cover more of the thigh without biting into the groin as the wearer moves.

Or you could cover a much smaller fraction with the flexible armor and cover most of the length with a continuous plate.

Originally Posted by Polydamas

If you review the description and look up the examples listed there, you should be able to tell the armour referred to by those two game terms apart. (GURPS Brigandine is cloth or leather covering small plates with similar length and width, Segmented Plate is long narrow plates exposed to view).

Which does nothing to explain why Brigandine is lighter.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Or you could cover a much smaller fraction with the flexible armor and cover most of the length with a continuous plate.

Eh, you've got to have the area near the hip and the area around the knee as segmented already. Eyeballing it, I'd say the amount that needs segmented works out to roughly 1/4 to 1/3 the length of the thigh armor. Going off of the (revised) Low Tech numbers, full length DR 4 thigh armor made of segmented plates weighs a total of 8.1 lb. Full length DR 4 thigh armor made of plates, if possible, weighs a total of 5.4 lb. The segmented/solid hybrid would weigh between 6.075 lb and 6.3 lb. So, you'd be doing a good deal of extra work to save the person a pound on each leg. Considering that the upper arm armor appears to only cover from the outside, it doesn't seem unlikely that the leg armor might be similar, at which point you're only saving something like half a pound per leg. At that point, I could easily see a competent armorer deciding it wasn't worth it.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Remind me, were those changes backed up in Low Tech Instant Armor, or are they still officially "house" rules?

house rules

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Eh, you've got to have the area near the hip and the area around the knee as segmented already. Eyeballing it, I'd say the amount that needs segmented works out to roughly 1/4 to 1/3 the length of the thigh armor. Going off of the (revised) Low Tech numbers, full length DR 4 thigh armor made of segmented plates weighs a total of 8.1 lb. Full length DR 4 thigh armor made of plates, if possible, weighs a total of 5.4 lb. The segmented/solid hybrid would weigh between 6.075 lb and 6.3 lb. So, you'd be doing a good deal of extra work to save the person a pound on each leg. Considering that the upper arm armor appears to only cover from the outside, it doesn't seem unlikely that the leg armor might be similar, at which point you're only saving something like half a pound per leg. At that point, I could easily see a competent armorer deciding it wasn't worth it.

You're doing less work, not more. Making a thigh-sized plate isn't as hard as assembling the same length out of smaller bands.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You're doing less work, not more. Making a thigh-sized plate isn't as hard as assembling the same length out of smaller bands.

If that's the case, then LT has it wrong and should have plate cost less than segmented plate. Perhaps there are cases where a sufficiently skilled armorer can fashion plate faster than segmented plate, but the increased price of the former implies it is at the very least harder to do so (I'd imagine shaping a large plate into precisely the right shape is a good deal less easy than doing the same for smaller plates), which means it's what I would call "more work." Armor that has some "give" - a bit of flexibility - like segmented plate can probably be made to less-tight tolerances than armor with absolutely no give.