[RPM] High Energy Cost spells (Example Body of Shadow)

[Langy]

Originally Posted by ronalmb

No, not overlooking them. But am observing that needing to be kitted out to the gills to safely attempt Body of Shadows and other spells I consider more mid-ranged isn't proving to be as compatible with my goals as I would like. I can fluff out grimoires to be something other than tomes and workplace kits is a little to academic sounding for the type of sorcery I am trying to force RPM to be, methinks.

The suggestion proving to be most useful so far is to revisit the Lesser/Greater effects and be a little more friendly on what is a Lesser spell and instead of using cost multipliers I'm going to impose penalties to the casting rolls instead. This will make the channeling of energy for larger spells a little friendlier while making it more likely that casters attempting spells beyond their ability will fail the casting portion.

Again, Body of Shadows isn't mid-ranged: it's the most expensive ritual that's been published! 'The most expensive option' is in no way a 'mid-range' option.

If you feel that Body of Shadows should be cheaper because you don't see it being worth as much as a ritual that can unavoidably disintegrate someone or curse an entire kingdom or whatever, then you should probably alter the assumptions going into the ritual rather than try and make mid-range casters able to do anything that a 350-point ritual can do.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Langy

Again, Body of Shadows isn't mid-ranged: it's the most expensive ritual that's been published! 'The most expensive option' is in no way a 'mid-range' option.

If you feel that Body of Shadows should be cheaper because you don't see it being worth as much as a ritual that can unavoidably disintegrate someone or curse an entire kingdom or whatever, then you should probably alter the assumptions going into the ritual rather than try and make mid-range casters able to do anything that a 350-point ritual can do.

That's another really good point and a important one. For 348 energy you can get a spell that does 15d-1 corrosion damage (for a internal damaging spell) or one that does 44d+1 corrosion damage (for a external one). That is a LOT of damage, almost enough to wipe out a normal HP 10 person for the internal damage and more than enough to take out a car for a external one. For the same amount you could call a horde of undead to do your will or give your self DR 68 for a hour, or any other number of really crazy, amazing things. A "mid-range" spell is about 100 or so energy. It's tough to pull off, but possible and allows you to do some amazing things. I say this as a GM and a game designer with more experience using RPM than just about anyone else who frequents these boards. I got to playtest MH and thus got a look at RPM before it was ever released, that was in 2010. I've used RPM in damn near every setting that has magic and I've spent time playing with it in nearly every way you could think of since then.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by ronalmb

If I used effective skill instead of base skill somewhere, it was an accident and I apologize. I do understand the difference between the two.

I understand the mechanics and what is required to successfully cast a 350 point spell ......

Sorry about this. I started my reply before your edit in post 5 and before Langy and yours following posts and my post ended explaining what didn't need explaining...

In the games where I used RPM, I did what other suggested above : playing with greater/lesser effect to favor/discourage some rituals.

Celjabba.

[scc]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

You never get a time bonus for casting magic. Magic is a dangerous business, you're better off playing with your dad's chainsaw instead.

Originally Posted by Langy

Right. That's one of the major reasons why 15 is the base 'professional skill' level for a mage - they don't get positive TDMs for 'unrushed, unthreatened' use.

Enchanting MIGHT be an exception, but it depends upon the conquences for a failed rolled.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by scc

Enchanting MIGHT be an exception, but it depends upon the conquences for a failed rolled.

Nope, it's not unless the GM house rules it otherwise.

Originally Posted by GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 20

The Time Spent (p. B346) rules may never be applied to magic.

Now, there is a optional rule that could be used if the GM is willing: the Speedy Enchantment perk from GURPS Thaumatology: Magical Styles, which gives access to the Time and Reliability (GURPS Thaumatology, pp. 108-109). It might be balanced as a perk depending on what your campaign is. In my current campaign I charged a 10-point Unusual Background to even enchant anything in the first place, though those that can use the rules for the Speedy Enchantment perk.

[scc]

I was actually talking about the bonus for working under unstressfull conditions, I don't understand why you brought the time spent rules into things

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by scc

I was actually talking about the bonus for working under unstressfull conditions, I don't understand why you brought the time spent rules into things

Presumably because it's a clear example of a bonus for "unrushed" use. Considering the dangers inherent to RPM casting, I would be hesitant to give any "unstressful" bonus.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by scc

I was actually talking about the bonus for working under unstressfull conditions, I don't understand why you brought the time spent rules into things

Because they're related, and because magic is never going to be a "easy" or "mundane" task. I figured I'd knock out both subjects in one post. Again, you're manipulating dangerous energies to perform supernatural feats - nothing about that says it's not stressful. You screw up and bad things (literally) happen. Of course, in your games you can Rule Zero it and say otherwise and that's fantastic! Wonderful, tell us how it plays out. :-) But normally? No.

[Walrus]

I see the main problem of OP here not in the pricing or skill in general but in either underestimating of spell effect or its overpricing. I'm inclined to second since i don't see how this spell can be abused, especially in common magic campaign.

[ronalmb]

Originally Posted by Walrus

I see the main problem of OP here not in the pricing or skill in general but in either underestimating of spell effect or its overpricing. I'm inclined to second since i don't see how this spell can be abused, especially in common magic campaign.

Pretty close to this. I see I have miscommunicated and made a lot of people think that I want mid-ranged casters to be capable of casting 350 energy cost spells. That is not the case. It is an issue with the cost of certain spells, such as Body of Shadow, that I am having the issue with and that I feel this spell is one that is more expensive than it need be for a common magic campaign.

Again, I am not saying "Mid range casters" should be able to cast 350 point energy spells - I am saying that Body of Shadow feels like a spell I want mid-ranged casters to be able to cast. There is a subtle difference.

Dropping the multiplier from costs and making it a penalty to the skill roll seems to be working for me pretty well during the re-pricing. I'm sure if there are any unpleasant surprises in doing this, i'll find out when i run this afternoon.