Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-22-2019, 04:22 AM   #1
FuelDrop
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Default Custom talent balancing advice

So long story short, am building up a fantasy campaign. Three major playable races (Humans, Elves, Dwarves).

Have custom combat styles ect for all of them, along with their own gimmicks, but decided to spice things up by giving each of them a custom talent that ties into their signature combat style. Am using alternate benefits from Powerups 3, and wanted to get opinions on the three alternate benefits I gave as far as balancing them is concerned.

If it is relevant, the current race with gunpowder weapons (humans) only has Matchlock weapons.

Musketeer Talent (5 points/level)
Requires: Human
Acrobatics, Guns (Musket), Smallsword, Fast Draw (ammunition), Running.
Secondary bonus: Reduces reload time on muskets by 5% per rank.

Ironwall Talent (5 points/level)
Requires: Dwarf
Axe/Mace, Hiking, Polearms, Shield, Armory (melee weapons)
Secondary bonus: Add rank to ST before determining knockback.

Skirmisher Talent (5 points/level)
Requires: Elf
Bow, Camouflage, Fast-Draw (Arrow), Running, Stealth.
Secondary Benefit: Reduce armour worn DR by rank for the purposes of determining stealth penalties (Low Tech 103)

Last edited by FuelDrop; 08-22-2019 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Humans had one less skill than everyone else. Because I is smart.
FuelDrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 04:11 PM   #2
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuelDrop View Post
Am using alternate benefits from Powerups 3, and wanted to get opinions on the three alternate benefits I gave as far as balancing them is concerned.
How many levels are you limiting them to?

And are you allowing the Gunslinging Perks from GURPS Gun Fu or GURPS Tactical Shooting (specifically I'm eyeballing the Quick Reload perk)? If you aren't, check it out and determine if 5% per level is enough (for reference Quick Reload shaves 25%/lvl off of reloading times, to a maximum reduction of 3 sec to reload a Musket).

Quote:
Ironwall Talent (5 points/level)
Requires: Dwarf
Axe/Mace, Hiking, Polearms, Shield, Armory (melee weapons)
Secondary bonus: Add rank to ST before determining knockback.
Add it to Slam resistance as well and I'm sold. And you might just want it to be a flat +lvl to Knockback damage instead of plus to ST. Yes, it's going to be higher, but it'll be easier to calculate and Knockback is very niche (unless your crew loves Knockback and seeks out every possible Knockback bene possible, then ya, it'll be good at ST).

Otherwise, they look good.

Last edited by evileeyore; 08-22-2019 at 05:05 PM.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 05:04 PM   #3
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
And are you allowing the Gunslinging Perks from GURPS Gun Fu (specifically I'm eyeballing the Quick Reload perk)? If you aren't, check it out and determine if 5% per level is enough (for reference Quick Reload shaves 25%/lvl off of reloading times, to a maximum reduction of 3 sec to reload a Musket).
This question also comes with the implicit question of: How many times do you want an adventuring Musketeer to be able to fire his musket during any given combat?

If your answer is "once", then I'd chose a different Alternate Ability for the Musketeer as it is pointless*. If your answer is "more than once" then you need to beef that Alt Ability up a bit.



* Pointless for an adventurer when most combats are over in 10 rounds. Great for ranks of Musketeers or skirmishing Musketeers who can get one additional volley off every full minute of warfare.


Sidenote: Something I did for a Musketeer I had in a DFesque game I ran a few years back was to give him a Fast Reload Technique and allow him to make an Armoury (Musket) Skill roll every round he was reloading. I speed up the process based on his Margin of Success on the roll, up to "each Ready Maneuver counting as 10 seconds for reloading". So he could 'speed-load' his .45 Matchlock in 6 seconds if he rolled fantastically (it generally took 10 or so seconds, 60 seconds total regularly), but as he had matching bore pistols which reloaded at half the time, he preferred those and could reload one of them in 4-5 seconds on average (he carried three and generally switched to sword for most fights once he'd emptied them).

My Fast Reload rules in a nutshell:

You may attempt to fast reload during a Ready Maneuver. Failure wastes not only that maneuver, but extra costs extra seconds based on your Margin of Failure. Your MoS is subtracted from the total time needed to reload your firearm (MoF is added), up to an MoS (MoF) of -10 (+10) per Ready Maneuver.


Fast Reloading
Average
Default: Armoury (Musket) -5.
Prerequisite: Armoury (Musket); cannot exceed prerequisite skill+5.
You've practiced reloading your firearm and can often do so faster than normal. If you have improved this technique up to the level of your skill, you may treat every load done with a normal reload time as a 'matched' load, doubling your ACC or reducing Malf by one step. If you further double your reloading time, you gain both benefits.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 05:35 PM   #4
cdru
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
How many levels are you limiting them to?

And are you allowing the Gunslinging Perks from GURPS Gun Fu or GURPS Tactical Shooting (specifically I'm eyeballing the Quick Reload perk)? If you aren't, check it out and determine if 5% per level is enough (for reference Quick Reload shaves 25%/lvl off of reloading times, to a maximum reduction of 3 sec to reload a Musket).
It should be noted that only Gun Fu allows multiple levels of Quick Reload
cdru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 06:14 PM   #5
FuelDrop
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

Apparently I wrote the Ironwall benefit poorly, as it's supposed to add to knockback resistance, not offense.

Talents are limited to level 4 as usual, so up to 20% reduction.
FuelDrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 06:48 PM   #6
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

Muskets are game changers in war, even at TL4, so you are favoring humans in warfare over the other two races (especially since you give them three combat skills, one ranged, one melee, and one fast-draw). For dwarves, I would replace Polearms with Gunner (Cannon). For elves, I would replace Running with Rapier.

As for the secondary benefits, I would instead have dwarves reduce the time for loading cannons by 5% per level, have elves reduce ranged visibility penalties by one per level, and have humans reduce ST requirements for personal firearms by one per level. That would allow dwarves to be superior gunners, elves to be superior snipers, and humans to be superior infantry. Thus, you preserve the balance between the two races.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 07:26 PM   #7
FuelDrop
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Muskets are game changers in war, even at TL4, so you are favoring humans in warfare over the other two races (especially since you give them three combat skills, one ranged, one melee, and one fast-draw). For dwarves, I would replace Polearms with Gunner (Cannon). For elves, I would replace Running with Rapier.

As for the secondary benefits, I would instead have dwarves reduce the time for loading cannons by 5% per level, have elves reduce ranged visibility penalties by one per level, and have humans reduce ST requirements for personal firearms by one per level. That would allow dwarves to be superior gunners, elves to be superior snipers, and humans to be superior infantry. Thus, you preserve the balance between the two races.
Since humans are the only faction with access to gunpowder, having the Dwarves use cannons doesn't fit.

Elves in the setting have other tricks for range, and better magic, but their specialty is ambushes. Hence the stealth bonuses, and running to escape back into the trees once the enemy starts to organize and reform.
FuelDrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 08:35 PM   #8
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuelDrop View Post
Apparently I wrote the Ironwall benefit poorly, as it's supposed to add to knockback resistance, not offense.
Then definitely add it to Slam resistance.

Quote:
Talents are limited to level 4 as usual, so up to 20% reduction.
As a Player I'd probably rather have the Reaction Bonus.




Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Muskets are game changers in war....
Meaningless for the average PC.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2019, 12:32 PM   #9
Black Leviathan
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

I'm going to be not-helpful here. Don't custom balance talents. Nobody does a good job of this, it always mucks up game balance. Talents are already kind of wonky but they're meant to represent an aptitude by virtue of having unique abilities that make you good at related skills, like better color distinction makes you good at art, or having a better defined palate makes you good at cooking and alchemy, better math application or 3D perception makes engineering, mechanics and such easier. The theme here is skills that come from a common "talent" for something. The skills associated with that talent should be related to what makes a person good at them. Not just a collection of skills that look good together. Coming from a culture where everyone is taught how to use a rifle isn't a talent, it's just points in Rifle.
Black Leviathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2019, 06:20 PM   #10
edk926
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Default Re: Custom talent balancing advice

I kind of feel, thematically, that the Dwarves would be the ones that would first discover gunpowder. Their advantages would be gunpowder/explosives and fortifications. The Elves' advantages would be magic and a connection to nature. The humans' advantages would be adaptability and versatility. Like the Dwarves would be at home in the mountains, the Elves would be at home deep in a forest, and the humans would colonize pretty much everywhere.
edk926 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.