Mixing Effect Shaping and Book Magic from Pyramid #3/66

[Steen]

Hello!

As the title suggests, I have some questions about mixing the Effect Shaping rules and the Book Magic rules that are laid out in Pyramid #3/66: The Laws of Magic. On page 14 of that same issue, the author notes that not all of the magic systems laid out in that issue mix well - some may even be game breaking! Others, he says, mix incredibly well.

For those unacquainted, the systems laid out here are based on the mechanics of Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic. The problem mainly concerns the cap on Skills determined either by the magician's Thaumatology skill and/or 12+Magery. In Pyramid #3/66, the rules for Book Magic say that Thaumatology no longer serves as a cap for one's Book skills, but that the 12+Magery cap is still in effect. However, the Effect Shaping rules say quite the opposite: Thaumatology still serves as a cap, but Magery does not - in fact, Magery adds to the magician's Book/Path skills and their Thaumatology.

Would it be possible to somehow combine these two systems? When combining them, should there then be no cap at all on the magician's Book/Path skills, or would that spiral out of control?

And a bonus question: when using the Effect Shaping rules, how would you go about using the Quick-and-Dirty Rituals and Charms rules on page 26 of Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic? The main problem seems to arise when Magery adds to the Book/Path skills, thus allowing a far higher safe threshold.

Thank you kindly.

[AlexanderHowl]

You can combine whatever you want, but you need to decide a limiter. In the former case, the limiter on Books is Magery+12. In the latter case, the limiter on effect-shaping is Thaumatology. If you combine both, you can choose both limiters (my suggestion), one limiter, or no limiters (which will end up game breaking).

The reason why no limiters is game breaking is that it is relatively cheap to increase Books, especially if Magery adds to skill. For example, an IQ 12 character with Luck, Magery 0, Magery+3 (One Book, -40%), and Ritual Adept (One Book, -40%) can purchase (Book)-25 for a grand total of 150 CP for the character. With (Book)-25 and RPM effect-shaping, you are close to being a god in your specialty, as you can easily cast -10 to skill rituals on the fly without really caring about reality or consequences.

[Lameth]

Hello

I have used RPM in most of its shapes and I always use ES in my games I run. The self imposed limit to Book magic is simple, YOU as the GM define the rituals first.

The overall limit is a book is supposed to be inherently limiting already. A book is supposed to be a few spells, maybe up to a max 12 or so, of predefined rituals and not allowing anything the caster wants...at least this is how I and many others run it. I have run this in the past without issue and I have run games well into the 2k CP range. And BTW, I love Book magic in ES RPM.

If you are looking for a more limited way to do it, then run it as EG instead, or place a hard limit on the bonus that can be gained, such as Thaumaturgy /2. This works well in my opinion. In my game, where I use that rule, this represents the "Knowledge as Power". Therefore someone with a thuamaturgy of 20 can only gather +10 to his skill with materials and other trappings. Therefore even if he wanted to cast a -20 spell, it will still be a -10 to his skill. You could also use the max Book skill is your Thaumaturgy as the book outlines, and then you will have 2 IQVH Core skills that need to be bought up for that book to move up.

In the end, all you can do is try it out and see if it works for you. If not, tweak it as you go.

And I do not use the fast and dirty way of Charms.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Steen

Hello!

As the title suggests, I have some questions about mixing the Effect Shaping rules and the Book Magic rules that are laid out in Pyramid #3/66: The Laws of Magic. On page 14 of that same issue, the author notes that not all of the magic systems laid out in that issue mix well - some may even be game breaking! Others, he says, mix incredibly well.

For those unacquainted, the systems laid out here are based on the mechanics of Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic. The problem mainly concerns the cap on Skills determined either by the magician's Thaumatology skill and/or 12+Magery. In Pyramid #3/66, the rules for Book Magic say that Thaumatology no longer serves as a cap for one's Book skills, but that the 12+Magery cap is still in effect. However, the Effect Shaping rules say quite the opposite: Thaumatology still serves as a cap, but Magery does not - in fact, Magery adds to the magician's Book/Path skills and their Thaumatology.

Would it be possible to somehow combine these two systems? When combining them, should there then be no cap at all on the magician's Book/Path skills, or would that spiral out of control?

And a bonus question: when using the Effect Shaping rules, how would you go about using the Quick-and-Dirty Rituals and Charms rules on page 26 of Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic? The main problem seems to arise when Magery adds to the Book/Path skills, thus allowing a far higher safe threshold.

Thank you kindly.

If you're mixing Effect-Shaping and Book Magic nothing really changes for Book Magic. It's a "All in One" skill. The limit would be Magery+12.