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Old 01-15-2013, 11:00 AM   #21
combatmedic
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Default Re: [IW] Tsar

Let me get this straight-

The US ended a civil war with reasonable negotiations that prevented a behemoth federal government from lording it over the states, ended slavery, and preserved the Union through what was effectively a peace treaty?
And it's only CR 3?

Hot damn, fire up the conveyor! I'm moving to...America.

:)
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: [IW] Tsar

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
It's listed as an oligarchy, which probably means that that nothing corresponding to the Reform Act of 1832 or its successors ever happened. That's in keeping with this bit from the original post:


The World War was 1877-1886, too early to have the same social effects as a conventional 1914-18 WWI, which was what made women's suffrage happen in the UK. Not that it could have happened without the nineteenth-century reforms.

Yes, that's the problem in Tsar's UK; the aristocracy are still in charge. Think of it as Jane Austen's England, with some technology upgrades, surviving another century.
Forgive me my history brain is having a major twitch.

OK Eastern Crisis 1877-78 extended to a World War. Without the mechanical gubbins.

Despite it was the 1688 act that pushed power away from the monarch. And the bucket of revolts that shaped the world etc. Who won the Franco-German war of 1870-1. Was the commune drowned in blood more quickly by Thiers?

IIRC the historic traders with Imperial Russia was the UK, France and also a bit by Holland.

Is the industrial revolution working or has it been held by lack of finance or conservatism.

Like I said my historical brain is having a major twitch.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:12 AM   #23
Michele
 
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Default Re: [IW] Tsar

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Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
Let me get this straight-

The US ended a civil war with reasonable negotiations that prevented a behemoth federal government from lording it over the states, ended slavery, and preserved the Union through what was effectively a peace treaty?
And it's only CR 3?

Hot damn, fire up the conveyor! I'm moving to...America.

:)
Well, yes. I'm glad you like that... but do you also imply that it's unlikely? Do you think the CR should be higher, given the overall situation on Tsar? Thanks for any input.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:49 AM   #24
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[
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf View Post
Despite it was the 1688 act that pushed power away from the monarch.
To the aristocracy, where it remains.

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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
Who won the Franco-German war of 1870-1. Was the commune drowned in blood more quickly by Thiers?
AFAICT no franco-german war and therefore no commune at all. Remember, the Great War started 1877 over the the question whether france or austria should control the bavarian kingdom. IMO this strongly implies no war of 1866, no north german federation and no franco-german war.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:18 AM   #25
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Default Re: [IW] Tsar

One of the issues were the troubles in Spain in 1868 where the crown was to pass to the Hapsburgs that really annoyed the French Emperor (can't think who it was now... not sure if it was a Philip who was elected and then took power in 1852).

Is there a a Suez Canal that the UK can steal the lion share from France and the Egyptians?

In the aftermath of the 'great war' were there the Boer Wars and the Russo-Sino war?

The problem I have is when in calm pond of history someone throws a rock into it there are ripples that are wide and far.

BTW theorectically there are no Tanks because that was a WW1 invention together with motorisation. Unless there are steam tanks?

'Twitch'
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:49 AM   #26
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One of the issues were the troubles in Spain in 1868 where the crown was to pass to the Hapsburgs that really annoyed the French Emperor
"The backward concept of monarchs' rights in this world made a dynastic union of Portugal and Spain possible"

So presumably no trouble in 1868.


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Is there a a Suez Canal that the UK can steal the lion share from France and the Egyptians?
No idea. But as the Great War was fought by a british-french-austrian alliance against the russians, and the russians acquired most former ottoman posessions in the middle east, british-french cooperation may well be a lot stronger than in OTL.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: [IW] Tsar

I'm also on the TL6 or late TL5 bandwagon. And I'd like to throw in a wild card, Teddy Roosevelt! Yes in our world TR dies in 1920. That's mainly because of a trip TR took in Brazil, it covered in a book called River of Doubt. In the Tsar timeline, Teddy never took the trip and is a vigorously healthy 59 year old. Who gained the US presidency in 1916!

Having Roosevelt, and a radicalised one too (Teddy's enthusiasm plus radicallism. Scary!) in charge is reviving the USA creates a source of transformations. Have Teddy allied with school reformers and those fighting to stengthen the federal government. If this USA, long a haven for progressives in Tsar, has most of the scientific radicals, maybe the rest of the world is late TL5 and the USA has just crossed into TL6.

If the Tsar of Russia notices this, then you could have a major war in the Rockies as the Russian invade to crush the abomination of America one and for all. Teddy verus cossacks, with Teddy getting help from the Dine' (Apaches).

Tell me that woulded be fun.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: [IW] Tsar

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Originally Posted by Pomphis View Post
AFAICT no franco-german war and therefore no commune at all. Remember, the Great War started 1877 over the the question whether france or austria should control the bavarian kingdom. IMO this strongly implies no war of 1866, no north german federation and no franco-german war.
Right. There is no united Germany, and there is not any sort of independent German federation or nominal "empire" or whatever. Germany, Italy and the southern Balkans, being areas of friction, are a collection of statelets, most of them under more or less heavy-handed control from Paris, Vienna or Moscow (in the case of Germany), Paris or Vienna (in the case of Italy), Vienna or Moscow (in the case of the Balkans).
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:48 AM   #29
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If this USA, long a haven for progressives in Tsar, has most of the scientific radicals, maybe the rest of the world is late TL5 and the USA has just crossed into TL6.

If the Tsar of Russia notices this, then you could have a major war in the Rockies as the Russian invade to crush the abomination of America one and for all. Teddy verus cossacks, with Teddy getting help from the Dine' (Apaches).
Nice addition. However, I'm afraid that the very mindset of the Tsar and other crowned heads on this world will lead to an underestimation of innovation, progress, and new technology, until there is a rude awakening.

In other words, I don't see the Tsar waging a pre-emptive war to nip these wrong-thinkers in the bud. I'd rather expect a series of minor, and then not-so-minor, wars, in which a smaller but more modern army defeats a larger but obsolete army. This might well begin with the defeat of some other less powerful backward power, say the Iberians in Mexico or the French navy in the Caribbeans. Russian bright thinkers will notice that; but unfortunately, they'll be junior officials of the foreign and intelligence services, or junior officers, or those ill-dressed scientists and industrialists. Which means their whistle-blowing will be dismissed by the decision-makers, old cavalry officers who are sure no machine will ever replace a good horse.

Only once there is an all-out war, possibly because of some minor territorial dispute, and the Imperial Navy loses a couple of battleships to the US submarines and their torpedoes, even the Tsar will have to open his eyes. But, who knows, maybe it's too late...
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:48 AM   #30
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Default Re: [IW] Tsar

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Nice addition. However, I'm afraid that the very mindset of the Tsar and other crowned heads on this world will lead to an underestimation of innovation, progress, and new technology, until there is a rude awakening.

In other words, I don't see the Tsar waging a pre-emptive war to nip these wrong-thinkers in the bud. I'd rather expect a series of minor, and then not-so-minor, wars, in which a smaller but more modern army defeats a larger but obsolete army. This might well begin with the defeat of some other less powerful backward power, say the Iberians in Mexico or the French navy in the Caribbeans. Russian bright thinkers will notice that; but unfortunately, they'll be junior officials of the foreign and intelligence services, or junior officers, or those ill-dressed scientists and industrialists. Which means their whistle-blowing will be dismissed by the decision-makers, old cavalry officers who are sure no machine will ever replace a good horse.

Only once there is an all-out war, possibly because of some minor territorial dispute, and the Imperial Navy loses a couple of battleships to the US submarines and their torpedoes, even the Tsar will have to open his eyes. But, who knows, maybe it's too late...
That certainly gives a new flavor to the great war. An English-French alliance against all the other powers with their new found toys has great potential. particuarly after relations start to break down among the winners...
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