12-19-2013, 04:11 PM | #201 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: Flat Black
Once again it seems I have deeply annoyed you. You think I'd learn, but apparently not. Even so, here I go again.
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In any case, a place with lots and lots of states isn't easier to manipulate due to there being more potential political actions (my earlier intuition). In fact, the social sculpting techniques the Empire and so forth use internally are much less useful in dealing with outsiders, since very few people approve of having their attitudes deliberately adjusted to facilitate an outsider's political goals. The high points hit, it is time to re-think my strategy here. My favorite thing about FLAT BLACK is the depth and internal consistency of it. This means that when I discuss it with you I tend to muck around and find things that don't make sense to me and ask you to explain them, and then debate explanations I don't like. This is the proper approach in academic publishing where much of my discussing instinct is sourced from, but not really constructive here. I shall endeavor to do better. |
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12-19-2013, 04:15 PM | #202 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Flat Black
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12-19-2013, 05:29 PM | #203 | ||||||
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: Flat Black
Not deeply, no. I am a little irritated that you ask questions about FLAT BLACK and then (as I tend wrongly to perceive it) disrespect my right to establish canon for my setting by contradicting my answers. Also, as the outcome of a long process that is not your fault, I feel that I have been held by a succession of players of FLAT BLACK games to a standard of detail and consistency that is inappropriately and unfairly high, and that pursuing this I have squandered my creative efforts on administrative and historical minutiae. And just now I'm (a) somewhat depressed and irritable and (b) feeling a little miffed that Bengt trolled me for three days and then announced that he has no taste for this genre anyway. I oughtn't to let that spill over onto you. I'm sorry.
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I'm sticking by that. The aristocrats on Navabharata mostly make their peasants loyal to them by means of the god gambit, and when they do need to confect a threat from the Other they mostly cast neighbouring states in the role. And even to the extent that they may encourage hostility to minority that they portray as threatening — atheists, maybe — they wouldn't need to build death camps. And if one started to build a death camp anyway a chap for the Colonial Office would land in an aircar and tell him to knock it off. The Empire faces no pressing incentive to reorganise Navabharata into a strong centralised state in order to sweep away its death camps. Quote:
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Which is not to say that a good engineer can't build a trebuchet or low trestle bridge out of found materials. Quote:
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In FLAT BLACK we see a science and engineering discipline that has let some governments, some utopist founding fathers, and the Empire get the results they wanted — in some cases, and when they have almost complete control over all the institutions of the society. But in utopias like Todos Santos and Simanta (the old Esbouvier) the social engineers got to design the education systems and syllabuses, the employment and promotion systems, the social and economic safety nets, the legal and penal systems, the housing and the family structures, and even the games and entertainments. You can't achieve results like theirs by shouting across an extraterritoriality line. The Empire does sometimes try to interfere in guise of doing charity work. It promulgates subtle propaganda like re-runs of Sesame St and Mr Rogers in pretence of public education. It creates oases of order and good government in the worker's camps of its large-scale civil engineering works, etc. etc. It also supplies advice and technical assistance to colonial governments that ant to reform their own societies. Allegedly, the Secret Service or the rumoured Undercover Division of the Political Department perform surgical operations at key pivot points in psychohistory to steer the development of societies. Even if true, these can only be tiny nudges. As for transformative results? No matter how brilliant and detailed the plans for your continent-spanning irrigation system, you still have to build the dams and dig the canals. Even given fusion generators electrical engineers can't supply electric light unless someone actually builds the transmission and distribution systems and wires the houses. High tech stuff is cool, but you do have to actually build it, not just understand it, to get the use of it. So it is with social engineering. You can't engineer a society without any control over its institutions. I'm sorry to have been slow to explain this. To me it seemed obvious. A blind spot, no doubt.
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. Last edited by Agemegos; 12-20-2013 at 05:07 AM. |
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12-19-2013, 05:32 PM | #204 |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: Flat Black
Yes. And the reason that they tend to support the LRA is that they are afraid that the Feds and the Empire are trying to send in social engineers with Jedi powers to make them into repellent utopias like Simanta or Todos Santos.
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. Last edited by Agemegos; 12-19-2013 at 09:27 PM. |
12-19-2013, 07:59 PM | #205 | ||
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: Flat Black
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. Last edited by Agemegos; 12-20-2013 at 04:18 PM. |
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12-19-2013, 09:33 PM | #206 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Flat Black
In a society where if things go bad the king dies it is fairly easy to use the king died so something was wrong. Which nudges things towards kings not doing things like that.
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12-19-2013, 09:54 PM | #207 |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: Flat Black
Parkinson, in his magisterial The Evolution of Political Thought, asserts that divine kings tend to adopt a policy of "do nothing and you'll do nothing wrong". If something has to be done you send out a delegate who can be accused of treason if he fails.
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. |
12-19-2013, 10:13 PM | #208 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Flat Black
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Bill Stoddard |
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12-21-2013, 05:35 PM | #209 |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: Flat Black
So what would be the best way to describe the government of Navabharata on a world summary sheet?
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. |
12-21-2013, 06:05 PM | #210 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Flat Black
Quote:
Bill Stoddard |
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Tags |
flat black, planetary romance, sci-fi |
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