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Old 10-17-2018, 11:27 AM   #1
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

If multiple characters on the same side of a fight take wait maneuvers, can on character conditions what they'll do on the results of another character's action For example, if Alice, Bob, and Carol are all covering the same door with ranged weapons, and Alice says, "I'll shoot the first person who comes through the door", can Bob say, "I'll shoot the first person who comes through the door and is not dropped by Alice?" Can Carol then say "I'll shoot the first person who comes through the door and is not dropped by Alice or Bob?"

The original thing that prompted this is point-defense in Spaceships—if two gunners are available for point defense, can the second gunner wait to see the results of the first gunner's roll before deciding whether to respond to an attack, or to save their fire for future attacks? But it seems like it could come up in a number of non-Spaceships situations, such as "covering" an area or stop-thrusts.
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:53 AM   #2
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

It depends on how quickly they're doing all this. Is this an effort to shoot the most amount of people coming through doorway in a 1 second turn. Or is it just about not everyone shooting the same person and resetting their waits after people come through?

Personally my issue would be in a scenario where lots of people are coming though in one turn judging whether or not someone is dropped in time to work out who you are shooting. In combat that isn't necessarily easy (it might even take time for someone to noticeably drop!). Also what counts as dropped, literally hitting the floor? The GM telling you they're out of the fight? Or just getting shot?

I'd probably let someone says "I'll shoot the first person who appears in the doorway", and their mate standing next to them to say "I'll shoot the second person who appears through the doorway" though. And if both happen within one turn than yeah nice set up!

If you're in doubt just say yeah sure but you're at -2 to hit due to the extra work involved in checking if your very precise wait condition has occurred in the time scale you want to act in (multiple people with cascading waits all going off in one second.

But either way its not something I'd worry bout too much. More importantly all the above is with a view to being what I personally might deem "realistic". In a more cinematic game than yeah absolutely go for it. Team tactics are cool!

And that's the most important thing, would it be cool and does it fit the game style*? Then that's all that matters.


*and the game style can of course be "doing cool things" making that qualifier moot!
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Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-18-2018 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:55 PM   #3
evileeyore
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Default Re: Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
If you're in doubt just say yeah sure but you're at -2 to hit due to the extra work involved in checking if your very precise wait condition has occurred in the time scale you want to act in (multiple peopel with cascading waits all going off in one second.
Yeah, I'd probably make it -4, and also require a Per based 'something' check (like Body Language, Diagnosis, First Aid, etc) at -4 to determine the first guy to "go down" is actually down (since bodies in motion don't drop immediately, they tend to stumble forward a bit before dropping).


I'd cut the penalty in half if they have the Teamwork Perk. Gotta reward that Perk where I can.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

I would use the Opportunity Fire Rules, B.390 but switch the friend or foe to dead or alive.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:36 PM   #5
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

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Originally Posted by Empada View Post
I would use the Opportunity Fire Rules, B.390 but switch the friend or foe to dead or alive.
Using the process described under "target discrimination" is an interesting idea, though the analogy isn't perfect—friend or foe is a fact about the person the instant they appear in the doorway, dead or alive (or conscious/unconscious etc.) is about the result of something that happens after the target appears in the doorway.
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Old 10-17-2018, 05:54 PM   #6
evileeyore
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Default Re: Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

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Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Using the process described under "target discrimination" is an interesting idea, though the analogy isn't perfect—friend or foe is a fact about the person the instant they appear in the doorway, dead or alive (or conscious/unconscious etc.) is about the result of something that happens after the target appears in the doorway.
But it's still a 'split second decision".

Target A rushes through the Door, Alice fires, Target A staggers sideways.

Did the target stagger because he's hit and going down? Or was it a stumbling but successful Dodge? Was he hit, but still combat worthy?


And actually, after rereading Opportunity fire, I'd go with that. The Vision roll and then a -2 to the attack.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Yeah, I'd probably make it -4, and also require a Per based 'something' check (like Body Language, Diagnosis, First Aid, etc) at -4 to determine the first guy to "go down" is actually down (since bodies in motion don't drop immediately, they tend to stumble forward a bit before dropping).


I'd cut the penalty in half if they have the Teamwork Perk. Gotta reward that Perk where I can.
Nice, I would too!
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

I make a distinction between a Wait conditioned on something happening vs something NOT happening. I allow the trigger to be almost any perceptible event, but I never allow lack of an event, because that doesn't determine the moment at which you should react (characters aren't aware that they are "taking turns!").

So in the example, I would allow a trigger like "my Wait will trigger after Alice shoots--if she fires and misses, I fire; if she fires and hits, I don't fire," but that doesn't allow you to attack again later.

I would not allow "my Wait will trigger if Alice doesn't act" because that's not an event you can react to unless you know "it's Bob's turn now," which is not a thing from the characters' perspective.

Going back to the example, Alice can trigger her Wait on the 1st person through the door. Bob can set his Wait trigger to "I'll Attack after Alice shoots," but he then has to make his Attack regardless of the outcome of that shot. Bob could also just trigger on the second person entering, or on the first person who enters and moves more than one yard (this way if Alice shoots him as soon as he entered, Bob's Wait isn't triggered--but if Alice shoots and misses and the guy just stands in the door, Bob's Wait isn't triggered).
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: Coordinating waiting with complicated conditions

Communication would be key, since if both teammates decided to attack after the other, neither would ever attack. Useful to make plans ahead of time or make gestures if stealth is necessary.
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