03-02-2007, 10:24 AM | #51 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
My players, being two 200 point mages, and three 225 point warriors of various styles, took on a group of 20 ~175 point Dark Elves optimized just for combat last session.
The Elves had the advantage of preparing the battlefield with Mystic Mist and Skull Spirits before starting their Big Ritual Casting Of Mass Zombie (Of Doom). The PCs dispatched the Skull Spirits by distracting them with the melee characters and then blowing them up with free 2d lightning bolts and over-used Concussion spells (the warriors were not pleased by being caught at ground zero by friendly Concussions). They then waded into the mist, managed to keep the whole party togeather after dealing with one PC freaking out, and got within shouting distance of the ritual casting. One mage used excessive amounts of Applied Mathematics, Measurement, and Intuitive Mathematician to deduce what direction the chanting was coming from and how far away the ritual was. He then aided the other caster with Lend Fatigue, and they proceded to drop two MASSIVE Concussion spells right in the middle of the ritual, one after the other. The entire ritual was fried. The ritual leaders were K.O.d, and one was obliterated. Every Elf was stunned and partially deaf, and they took turns to recover. The players were therefore able to engage Elves as they recovered from stunning and keep them essentially in small groups rather than having to deal with 20 angry elves at once. The mages were utterly tapped out but one kept chucking his free 2d lightning bolts to good effect, and the other hung around, prepared to burn HP to cast curative magic if needed. It was tactically beautiful. So yeah, Mages won't be de-nerfed in my campeign. You may consider finding your mage a sidekick, apprentice, or other convenient FP source. Powerstones are kind of lame due to how long they take to recharge - other spell casters are far more useful :D Healing potions can be drunk to recover FP after casting, as well - can be costly but it's also quite effective.
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03-02-2007, 10:31 AM | #52 | |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
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That's why Magi take Familiars 8) |
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03-02-2007, 10:54 AM | #53 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
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03-02-2007, 11:29 AM | #54 | |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
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There is Telecast [Magic p128] Throw Spell [Magic p128] that gets around the range penalties. |
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03-02-2007, 11:36 AM | #55 |
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
My mages started with circa 500points, and bought their colleges as bang skills. The primary mage character bought his Magery up to 7, and the Fire college above 20. I've also been very generous with the CP rewards (5-10 per session).
And with all that, the archmage still lets the swordswoman take the point in all combats, after Great Hasting her. Even unenhanced, her kill rate is significantly higher than either of the other characters. In a melee situation, I'd bet on the warrior, no matter the point total. However, mages shine with their versitility -- getting ahead of the invading army of orcs, piercing the shapeshifting serpent-men's disguises, protecting the camp while everyone is sleeping.
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Paul Chapman |
03-02-2007, 11:57 AM | #56 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
It definitly comes down to stylistic preferences. For the kind of campaign we are trying to get. I suggest the following Optional Rules:
Magery: Magery 0: No change Magery 1+: Double CP costs. Rules: Now Regular/Area spells are -1/Skill per multiple of Magery in yards. (e.g. Magery 3 = -0 to 3yards, -1 to 6 yards, -2 to 9 yards, etc.) A typical Mage should take extra fatigue with the Mana-only limitation (10% discount) equal to their magery x 1-3. (But no more than x3) Stuff: This assumes a campaign where there is a bell curve (mage curve?), That is 60-80% of mages are magery 0-1. And things get more rare from there. This will allow a gifted few wizards to be the lords of the battlefield and cosmos (supers like), while keeping most mages in check verses their "mundane" brethern. :) Just my tastes.
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03-02-2007, 12:15 PM | #57 | |
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary, AB... looking for a few more to join us.
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
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At first my mind was tainted by my experience with Champions and other systems where min/maxing would garner quite unbalanced results. GURPS seems to have in it an inherent balance that is enhanced quite easily by a little min/maxing. See Kromm's post about the Archer for reference to that. He's not twinked out to ridiculous proportions, but he is quite effective and still fairly balanced. You can do the same for a mage, but you won't move mountains at low levels. You'll be able to provide buffs, debuffs, maybe some healing, change small patches of weather, control some measure of the elements... but you'll never match other systems for raw damage because that's not what the GURPS magic system is about. That's what Innate Attacks are about. Essentially, Innate Attack is a universal source of damage that was put in the basic set to apply to anything one can imagine. If it's damage that you want to be doing, invest in a few IAs to bolster your spell list and call them magic.
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03-02-2007, 05:19 PM | #58 | |
Fightin' Round the World
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
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It's the mages I'm worried about, of course, spending those XP to pull off dramatically powerful spells. Not shattering armies, but teleporting huge distances or create gates or whatever.
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03-03-2007, 11:11 PM | #59 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
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So a mage with FP 20, a 15-point powerstone, and magical spell ingredients worth a total of 45 tass could drop a few xp into getting a crit on his 105-cost spell, sure. What would have happened is that he would have used up his 60 points of external mana and paid the remaining 45 himself. The first 20 would have come out of his normal FP, the next 20 would have taken him into negative FP (causing damage) and the remaining 5 would have to paid as HP. The net effect? He's down 25 HP from the spell, but has full FP, a fully charged powerstone, and didn't need to use any of his spell ingredients after all. That's one way to work it, at least. Personally, I think I'd say that since the most energy a mage can possibly throw into a spell before suffering crazy penalties is 2xFP, that -- plus any powerstones, etc. -- would be the limit on free energy on a crit. But I'd only bother enforcing that rule if I thought mages were trying to munchkin the system . . .
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03-09-2007, 05:59 PM | #60 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Un-nerfed Mages
So in another playing group, the suggestion to use Malediction (B106) to modify the cost of regular (or other) spells (or perhaps the Magery advantage itself), which would let you pay x1.5 cost for the Range Table penalties ILO Regular or x2 cost for the Long Distance Tables.
I'm thinking this would unbalance the game pretty badly (point wise). But what does everyone else think?
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kromm answer, magic |
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