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Old 06-12-2012, 09:53 AM   #11
cosmicfish
 
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

Sigh... the problem with a long post. By the time it is finished, it is often outdated...

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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
This mission is indeed being carried out by some 100 men. The game however is about a small group that is shot down and have to find their way back to the others, to the mission objective and hopefully to the extraction point in time. It's a race through hostile land.
Not a bad idea for a short mission! The bright side is that this allows you to pick pretty much whoever you want, it doesn't have to make a ton of sense. The mission is going to be parceled out to sub-units, so this squad might not have any demo gear or long-range comms, for example. It could also be some highly specialized sub-unit (a bio-warfare unit being sent as a precaution, for example) or even just observers of some type. Also, if they are shot down some of their gear (especially the larger stuff) might be lost with the Osprey.

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Re. Ammo and food.
this is really where I was at a loss, so thanks for that. 15 clips possibly? OK.
15 would be fine with at least as many more stowed in packs. Remember that your primary weapon and ammo are your most essential equipment in combat - run out of ammo and all you can do is run away or surrender.

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Re. Exoskeletons
It doesn't really look that practical at all, even in 10 years time. Even if it was made more practical, would they really outfit an entire company with it? It sounds expensive.
Anyway, I'm not against the idea it just have to be somewhat believable.
You are already including Ospreys because they are cool, decide if you want exoskeletons and use them if wanted. There are additional systems you could consider like autonomous rovers and robotic pack-mules being developed that would not be attached to people. Remember that ANY new technology gets deployed in stages, so this squad could be the first to use exoskeletons or the last unit still waiting to get theirs.

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Would they be able to resist armouring the thing? How would it work in GURPS? How would it looks and feel to the soldier?
This gets complicated. Armor would only be included if enough can be carried to be worthwhile and without compromising the advantages of the exoskeleton. There are already rules for powered armor and exoskeletons, just look them up and modify to taste. How it would look and feel depends on the specific suit.

Last edited by cosmicfish; 06-12-2012 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

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Sigh... the problem with a long post. By the time it is finished, it is often outdated...
Hehe I know that feeling. But both post are much appreciated, I especially appreciate the stuff about what sort of roles an 8-man team would contain, even if that was for seals.


And good point about "going with what I like", I think I'll stay away from the exoskeletons to the PCs for now. Or maybe hmm. How likely do you think would it be that each unit gets one and then one person act as a mule, instead of a robotic one?
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Re. Exoskeletons
It doesn't really look that practical at all, even in 10 years time. Even if it was made more practical, would they really outfit an entire company with it? It sounds expensive.
Anyway, I'm not against the idea it just have to be somewhat believable. Would they be able to resist armouring the thing? How would it work in GURPS? How would it looks and feel to the soldier?
The GURPS stats for such a device are in UT, page 181. A real-world example of it is the Hybrid Assistive Limb suit from Cyberdyne, which is not ready for deployment yet, but is looking promising. DARPA has been working on its own design for years, too. I would call it a technology that's closer to 20 years out than 10, however.

Something that we're far closer to is the robotic "mule", a four-legged walking drone used to carry gear. This may be closer to 10 years away than 20. It will also likely be easier to deploy on a wide scale, with each squad receiving one mule for cargo hauling, compared to outfitting multiple soldiers per squad with exoskeletons.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

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I especially appreciate the stuff about what sort of roles an 8-man team would contain, even if that was for seals.
To be more precise, an 8-man SEAL boat crew includes an officer/team leader, an senior nco/ assistant team leader, an intelligence specialist, a dive operations specialist (maintains dive gear), an air operations specialist (maintains parachutes), a comms specialist, a "first lieutenant" (maintains boats), and an ordnance specialist (maintains demo gear). 1-2 of these will be medics and 1-2 will be sniper qualified. There are other qualifications, but they do not sound relevant to your scenario. A 16-man SEAL platoon has two boat crews and is bossed by the senior officer and NCO.

By comparison, a 12-man SF A-team (SFODA) will have a team leader/officer, an assistant team leader/warrant, and two men in each of engineering/demolitions, communications, medical, weapons, and operations/intelligence. Note that just like the SEAL platoon is split into two boat crews, an A-team can also be split into two 6-man sections while still maintaining the complete skill set in each.

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And good point about "going with what I like", I think I'll stay away from the exoskeletons to the PCs for now. Or maybe hmm. How likely do you think would it be that each unit gets one and then one person act as a mule, instead of a robotic one?
It would be possible, but I am not sure it is a good idea - you want to keep the mobility and endurance of your troops on the same level whenever possible, and having one guy who is either improved or hampered by an exoskeleton could be risky. If the mobility is comparable, then it should be fine, but I would consider an autonomous rover or robot mule for this scenario, as both are also in development.

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Spoiler:
Nah. Let em be surprised.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

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15 would be fine with at least as many more stowed in packs. .
For what would you need 15 mags and the same number in the packs(Ammunition to reload the mags, but an additional 15 mags to carry?)

A recon or guarding unit, oredered to secure some route/area to the operation/recon the area?
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

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For what would you need 15 mags and the same number in the packs(Ammunition to reload the mags, but an additional 15 mags to carry?)

A recon or guarding unit, oredered to secure some route/area to the operation/recon the area?
My suggestion was 10-12 mags available on the body - to the best of my knowledge that represents a pretty typical load for most offensive operations. The OP replied with 15, which I said is fine - if you can handle the expense, bulk, and weight, that is up to you (or more accurately, your CO).

As to the ammo in the pack, that is an insurance policy. The OP specified a ~12 hour mission time, and that is an eternity for an extended force, especially where (as it sounds in this case) resupply is not a likely option - you want the extra ammo with you.

It could be "loose" ammo, I suppose, but the added cost and weight of the empty mags is pretty low compared to the cost of lost life and the time required to reload magazines in the middle of a firefight, assuming you even still have the magazines and haven't scattered them in your path across the battlefield.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

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My suggestion was 10-12 mags available on the body - to the best of my knowledge that represents a pretty typical load for most offensive operations.
[...]
The OP specified a ~12 hour mission time, and that is an eternity for an extended force, especially where (as it sounds in this case) resupply is not a likely option - you want the extra ammo with you.
Someone else mentioned x3 as much as I have noted. That's where I got the 15 from. I would actually really like to limit the amount of ammo they have if possible. So lets say 10 mags instead. How about if the mission was only planned to be 3-4 hours? Not 12?

Last edited by Maz; 06-12-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #18
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

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To be more precise, an 8-man SEAL boat crew includes an officer/team leader, an senior nco/ assistant team leader, an intelligence specialist, a dive operations specialist (maintains dive gear), an air operations specialist (maintains parachutes), a comms specialist, a "first lieutenant" (maintains boats), and an ordnance specialist (maintains demo gear). 1-2 of these will be medics and 1-2 will be sniper qualified. There are other qualifications, but they do not sound relevant to your scenario. A 16-man SEAL platoon has two boat crews and is bossed by the senior officer and NCO.
Why wasn't this included in GURPS Special Ops? Is it a new SEAL thing, or was it done earlier but was still classified info when Special Ops was last being updated? It's highy useful infomation.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:52 PM   #19
cosmicfish
 
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Someone else mentioned x3 as much as I have noted. That's where I got the 15 from. I would actually really like to limit the amount of ammo they have if possible. So lets say 10 mags instead. How about if the mission was only planned to be 3-4 hours? Not 12?
Reserve ammo will nearly always be taken unless there is a diehard reason (mobility, availability of support, supply shortages) why it cannot be. It's like reserve fuel in an aircraft, even if you don't think you need it you should have it around simply because the consequences can be so severe.

So if you want to limit the ammo, I would just manufacture a scenario that did so. For example:

Your squad is in the Osprey en route to the insertion point. At the front of the cabin, two officers are in a quiet discussion over an open crate. After a minute, one of them turns to the rest of you and yells over the roar of the engines "Get your rucks out! You're gonna take night vision in case there are caves!" You all get up, dutifully unclip your ruck sacks, and place them at your feet while the officer hands out cased night vision goggles from the crate. Before you can get much further, an alarm sounds from the front of the aircraft as the pilot yells "INCOMING!!".

You grab onto the seat just as a missile tears off the back of the bay. Several men towards the back are ripped out of the aircraft by the explosion, and the two officers, the crate, and all the rucksacks are thrown out of the gaping hole as the pilot frantically tries to regain control of the stricken aircraft. With the airframe groaning under displaced stresses, the pilot yells for everyone to get ready to jump. You watch the engines start to rotate up to vertical as you approach a small lake with a clear beach, only to watch as one engine, clearly damages, abruptly freezes in place. The copilot yells out "IN THE WATER! NOW!!"

With the Osprey clearly in its death throws, everyone runs, jumps, or slides out the back of the craft and into the water. Thankfully, the water is deep enough and the aircraft slow enough that no one is hurt by the haphazard insertion, and you come out of the water just in time to see the Osprey spin and then heel over on its back, crashing into the jungle.

As you get to the beach, you see there are only the six of you left, and all you have is that gear that was strapped to you at the start of the mission - including your web gear and weapons, but without the supporting gear, emergency supplies, and extra ammunition you had in your rucksacks. You still have a map to the three designated exfiltration points, and it does not appear that any of your gear was damaged."


Or something like that.

Last edited by cosmicfish; 06-12-2012 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: Near-future US Ranger loadout

I have a tangentially related question. I'm doing a one session mission game where my players are going in as some kind of elite Para-Rescue-like guys. Or perhaps they're closer to Force Recon, or really just kind of fictional Elites who go and do things.

Anyways, they're going in via HALO. Just how much can one get away with carrying on a HALO drop?

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