Parachuting: modifiers for LALO and HALO jumps?

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by ed_209a

Ram-air parachutes (the square ones) are wings. Just not particularly efficient ones. That is how HAHO drops can go dozens of miles from the drop aircraft.

I don't know how HAHO chutes are different from sport chutes, but I would guess they are bigger, both to give better payload and better glide ratios.

The size of the parachute doesn't affect glide ration very much. Ram-air chutes have roughly a 2:1 glide ratio. The size of the canopy required depends on how much weight it is suspending. The accepted rule is that a 1 lb per 1 square foot of canopy is the most efficient, but a canopy can generally handle wingloading as high as 2.4:1 (though this is extremely dangerous and will result in an extremely fast and touchy parachute).

Personally, I'd consider the exit pretty much a given as good unless the person is trying something particularly complicated or precise exits. Someone with practice shouldn't have to worry about a good exit. Throwing safely while stable is worthy of a roll, I'd think, when you're dealing with all of that gear. Personally, I'd lump flying the canopy and langing in with Parachuting, as the description of the skill says that it covers use of parachutes. Again, I'd probably have changing wind conditions, wingloading, obstacles, etc. tack on modifiers to the landing roll. On a botched landing, I'd allow a Breakfall roll defaulted from Parachuting to represent a proper PLF with failure resulting in damage being taken mostly by the ankles and knees. Without any real experience with swooping, I couldn't offer any suggestions on handling any sort of extreme parachute guidance or trick landings.

That's my $0.02

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by SentryGun

How much gear can you carry on a HALO? I know this is not the intention of the thread, but it comes up occasionally.

I also like the idea of the two roles necessary for the HALO - suggested by General Lee. I often get nervous in making the players role for such events, as it could end the game before it begins - if the HALO is part of "getting there". I like dice like everyone else, but if you get a critical failure at this stage, it is a bad day...or beginning of an exciting one at least.

Sometimes I thought that problem, too. You have the reserve...(only on HAHO... HALO another story). On HALO, maybe have space to freefall skill to stabilize the fall and permit an safelly opening (which could mean bonuses to HAHO/HALO technique). As sugested by Humanbot.

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Piloting (Glider) is for winged aircraft. A parachute does not have wings. So, therefore this is a house rule of yours.

Before High-Tech I only roll Parachuting, but there have rules that to steer a ram-air parachute you must use Piloting (glider), so it's not house rules, but core rules. You embrace it if you want...

[Hannes665]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

I don't know why HAHO was brought up. I thought it was the easiest kind of jump.

Well I guess opening and steering a parachute from uptop 25 to 30 thousand feet is not a easy task. You are most often with heavy gear + oxygen mask and bottle.

Taken from Wiki.

The HAHO technique is used to airdrop personnel at high altitudes when aircraft are unable to fly above enemy skies without posing a threat to the jumpers. In addition, HAHO parachute jumps are employed in the covert insertion of military (generally special forces) personnel into enemy territory, in circumstances where the covert nature of an operation may be compromised by the loud noise of parachutes opening at low altitude.

In a typical HAHO exercise, the jumper will jump from the aircraft and deploy the parachute at a high altitude, 10–15 seconds after the jump (typically at 27,000 feet (8,200 m) or so). The jumper will use a compass or GPS device for guidance while flying for 30 or more miles. The jumper must use way points and terrain features to navigate to his desired landing zone, and correct his or her course to account for changes in wind speed and direction. If deploying as a team, the team will form up in a stack while airborne with their parachutes. Usually, the jumper in the lowest position will set the travel course and act as a guide for the other team members.

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by General Lee

Before High-Tech I only roll Parachuting, but there have rules that to steer a ram-air parachute you must use Piloting (glider), so it's not house rules, but core rules. You embrace it if you want...

Generally, the core rules (Character and Campaign) supersede any supplements by virtue of being, well, core.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Generally, the core rules (Character and Campaign) supersede any supplements by virtue of being, well, core.

Uh, no...

The most recent rules are the ones that count. Ideally, new supplements shouldn't contradict the Basic Set, but we live in an imperfect world and when it does, the newer supplement is considered the official version of the rules. Of course, players and GMs are free to negotiate between themselves to use any rules they want, including older rules or house rules, but if you ask for advice on the official forums, you are more likely to get an answer based on the current rules.

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Uh, no...

Although many mechanics within even the two main books are in reality "optional", they really still are the default rules.

Errata is something you download, not buy.

[ed_209a]

I have to lean more towards Icelander here.

The sourcebooks give more detail in certain areas with the assumption that you will be largely ignoring other areas.

HT overrides Basic in the sense that there are 5 TL7 9mm handguns, not just one. This is really more like an elaboration than a correction, though. It doesn't force you to use those stats in a TL7 magic setting, or a TL7 martial arts setting.

I am not aware of any rule changes only in sourcebooks that are meant to affect all genres. (Possibly buckshot being P instead of P-, but I think there was an erratta for that; it wasn't just in a sourcebook.)

[vicky_molokh]

Basic gives a simple way to do it. Other books give a detailed and often more correct way to do it.

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Generally, the core rules (Character and Campaign) supersede any supplements by virtue of being, well, core.

See page 232 from High-Tech

[Humabout]

My main problem wtih Parachuting only covering throwing yoru pilot chute or cutting away and flying your reserve is that it seems way too specialized, especially when those two tasts are so routine in skydiving of any kind that I couldn't force a roll for them in good conscience. At most on a mal, I'd impose a Fear check for the jumper to keep his wits about him and that would determine if he cuts away or is stunned for a number of seconds, at which point, how quickly he recovers depends on how low he is when he cuts away.

I could see using a Parachuting roll to clear a partial mal like line twists or a slider that hasn't come down, or maybe to decide if you need to cut away. I could also see expanding Parachuting to include packing a parachute (with a hefty default to packing reserve chutes thanks to the 70lb spring involved), and properly maintaining a rig. I just have a hard time requiring a roll for something as routine as jumping over child's toy or cooking scrambled eggs.