GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

[Grouchy Chris]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It should cover all currently extant megafauna and apex predators as well as an iconic examples of nearly every vertebrate order or superorder.

I think that's asking too much. There are many species of large fish out there, and I don't statting each one individually is going to sell a lot of books.

[Solatarye]

Generally for each order one that is the smallest and one that is the largest make the best examples. Most everything else can be extrapolated from them.

As for the TL levels, It just happened to be the loads I was using at the time. Ex I made a moose for a low tech magic campaign and was making the bat as part of a TL 10 planetary campaign.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Wraithe

That's just like you vertebrate chauvinists. Here I was, getting ready to stat up some decent anaerobic bacteria, but no...forget it now. My stats for tapeworms would have been a thing of beauty, but now....

There are only a few invertebrates that are large enough for GURPS to stat as characters rather than swarms. I certainly think the book should include a swarm chapter (and probably some Body of Swarm templates). Large invertebrates (like the big mollusks) should certainly be included!

Originally Posted by Grouchy Chris

I think that's asking too much. There are many species of large fish out there, and I don't statting each one individually is going to sell a lot of books.

There's like 13 superorders of ray-finned fish, and only three extant orders of lobe-finned fish. I don't think ~16 examples is too much, and note that I said nearly every order or superorder some are clearly too similar in game terms to matter overmuch. I certainly never suggested that every species of vertebrate be statted. By megafauna I meant land-dwelling megafauna, BTW.

[Anders]

I think it should also include all animals from every mythology. And I want it by mid-July 2011.

Fetch!

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

You know, Bestiary 3e still doesn't give us the nasty moose bite.

The venom is TERRIBLE. And then they lay eggs in your gut and now you're really screwed.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

By megafauna I meant land-dwelling megafauna, BTW.

Honestly, throwing in one baleen whale and one toothed whale isn't a bad idea. Or even just a baleen whale (a popular target for hunting). I'd also add one type of "regular" dolphin, the orca, and leopard seals but I don't know if those qualify as megafauna or just "big and dangerous" - but they're more likely to be in the shallower water that PCs might be mucking about in, and all three can be aggressive and dangerous (especially when mind-controlled by sirens, sea druids, shamen, whatever).

And of course this post is an excellent example of the "feature creep" induced by design-by-committee. "Well, just add these five animals." "Oh, and these 18", "Don't forget these four!".

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Honestly, throwing in one baleen whale and one toothed whale isn't a bad idea. Or even just a baleen whale (a popular target for hunting). I'd also add one type of "regular" dolphin, the orca, and leopard seals but I don't know if those qualify as megafauna or just "big and dangerous" - but they're more likely to be in the shallower water that PCs might be mucking about in, and all three can be aggressive and dangerous (especially when mind-controlled by sirens, sea druids, shamen, whatever).

I didn't mean the suggestion as an ironclad rule, that's why I said "nearly any". I was just saying there probably isn't a reason to include every teleost massing more than 50kg or whatever. OTOH, it should include Barracuda though.

How about:
An iconic example of nearly every animal superorder or order that contains an extant species large enough to have a meaningful ST score, plus or minus a few specifically famous or boring animals.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I didn't mean the suggestion as an ironclad rule, that's why I said "nearly any". I was just saying there probably isn't a reason to include every teleost massing more than 50kg or whatever. OTOH, it should include Barracuda though.

How about:
An iconic example of nearly every animal superorder or order that contains an extant species large enough to have a meaningful ST score, plus or minus a few specifically famous or boring animals.

What??? No dinosaurs??? :P

Seriously, though: I'm wondering if we shouldn't be thinking of a 4e Bestiary in the same way that Space and Low-Tech turned out: that is, a book which is more or less a bunch of (well-researched) animal stat blocks, aimed at the ones that are likely to be the most useful in an adventure; and a series of pdf supplements that expand that to the more exotic fauna (perhaps on a regional basis?) and/or to address animals-as-characters in more depth.

[Wraithe]

Seriously, part of the problem with the whole "Bestiary" thing is, that as SO many have pointed out, everyone wants something different.

Added to that, it's got to cover (potentially) so much ground, that you're not really talking about a "Bestiary", you're talking about a "series of bestiaries".

Additionally, I've been deciding that I think that the GURPS "Bestiaries"/critter listings need to be changed to a different, easier to use format.

I've been playing with stat-ing my way through "The Element Encyclopedia of Magical Creatures"*, which at 600+ pages is rather daunting. And we're still not hitting alien creatures, domesticated "real world" animals, etc...

It's a pretty pickle....

*a book which is WELL worth picking up.

[chrisjapow]

Agreed, it seems like such a book would likely be a series, each one tailored to a certain genre. perhaps it would be useful to have one "central" bestiary, containing real-world animals, followed by a series of PDF releases, like dungeon fantasy monsters & races*, mythical creatures, alien races & sci-fi monsters, horror monsters (& Things Man Was Not Meant To Know...), prehistoric megafauna & dinosaurs, etcetera etcetera. Personally I'd find it much more interesting to have books on fictional baddies to beat up than real-life animals, which I would only use as templates for PC purposes. I don't find it particularly heroic to stomp around the countryside beating up foxes and badgers.

On the other hand, if they were to compile one tome featuring all of the above, I'd definitely snap that up.

*OK the DF books already have a section on various types of monsters but more wouldn't go amiss. Yes you can make your own up but I think DF players generally want out-of-the-box stuff.