New Reality Seeds

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Drifter

An Impact event, to so imprint on a young Proxmire, would have to happen between 1915, his birth, and his entrance into the Hill School, a boarding school for boys that he graduated from in 1933 (per wikipedia) or 34 (per the school site). You don't want him too young (maybe 1921) or before he left for school - which I can't info on so lets say 1929. Not much happened in the 20s - Tunguska in 1908, a 1 megatonner in Brazil in 1930. If the Brazilian event was slightly different - a year or two early, and somewhat larger, a spray of several .1 to .9 megaton hits in and around south Lake Michigan in 1928. You have the Republican primary in Chicago in April, so violent its called the Pineapple Primary, as in hand-grenade. You also have regular scheduled TV by May, and the birth of Mickey Mouse. So mass media would eat up a disaster like that, huge waves hitting Chicago, craters peppering the landscape around it. The public would clamor for missiles just in time huge leaps in the tech in the run up to WWII.

Missile tech during WWII is more advanced thanks to widespread civilian support. Maybe it alters something during the war, but to keep it simple the general path of the war stays the same. Maybe London takes a worse beating, maybe Berlin is subject to British jerry-buster bombs. Going into the 1950s the Soviets and the West have much more advanced missile tech than in Homeline. Sputnik event is way earlier, unmanned Soviet landing Nixon presidency, manned Soviet landing by 1963, Kennedy makes his Mars promise and wins 1964 election.

Mars colony aims for July 4th, 1976 date. Program missed it by years, tries for July 4th again, but finally lands July 16th 1979.

Perhaps Von Braum could move to the USA in the 1930's to follow the job opportunities. Von Braum was icily opportunistic and self-centered, he didn't like the Nazis but worked for them as the only game in town and played by their rules. Move him to the USA and he's fit in and do for us what he did for the Nazis and with vastly less bloodshed.

Meanwhile, might american mass produced missles pound key targets in Germany collapsing their ecconomy early and shaving ten or more months off the war?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Its OK, and it is plausible, but industrial, democratic, dominant Europe seems less interesting from a story/adventure standpoint. That is, what makes it significantly different than the other, "official" alternates that are Euro-centric? Like Aeolus (jets and kings) or Cornwallis (Washington defeated)?

Here Europe hasn't had a long rule that's falling away. Here Europe is picking up China's pieces and starting their empires.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Ming-16:
1892
TL 6

The Ming have gone on to dominate the world in a variety of alternates. This one is noteworthy because of what happened anyway: while the chineese expanded to dominate Asia, and the Indian and Pacific Oceans, The west went through the industrial revolution anyway. The Chineese have struggled to keep up, and in the last few years, collapsed into a civil war.

The dominant civilization of this world is europe, which is ruled by a rather aggressive democracy based out of France. England is allied with the main federation, but is unique in europe for still having some aristocrats, most have been executed across Europe. The europeans are currently picking up colonies around the world abondoned by the current chaos and moving into an more conservative political mood.

China splintered 15 years ago, and is currently in a series of civil wars between five claimants to the mandate of heaven. China's colonies, from Siberia to Mexico to South Africa, are faring as well as they can, though they are part of the civil war as well-- south east Asia is particularly bad.

The ottoman empire rules eastern Europe (except for russia, which is part of the european brotherhood of liberty). They're industrializing rapidly, while at the same time experiencing a cultural renisance. they may soon be strong enough to challenge Europe. To the south, Egypt and its arab empire follow suit, grabbing colonies out of africa

The americas are split in ownership. Brazil is among the strongest of the colonies left by the chineese, and is building strong links with Egypt. The Mississippi river valley and eastern sea board are part of europe's sphere, while the Amaru empire has expanded to cover all of classic american civilization under emperor Cuzcuz.

Notes:

This world was constructed using a variation on the rules from Infinite worlds for generating far parallels, with some historical events generated from the Fantasy world building pyramid. It took some constructing to get right, but I find it plausible enough.

The Europeans seem like the Jacobins writ large.
"European Brotherhood of Liberty'' has much the same creepy tone as ''People's Democratic Republic.'' Is it part of a proper name, or just a slogan used by the Eurocrats?




I'm a bit confused by the ''more conservative mode'' line. Some of the former Chinese colonies are moving into a more conservative mode? Is this bringing them into sharper conflict with the imperialist Europeans? Is it that in order to end the chaos, the Chinese colonists in some places have accepted European domination? Or is it that the Europeans are entering the Bonapartist phase, and some general may soon proclaim himself First Citizen, Protector of the People, or what've have you--- and rule as an autocrat?


The Ottoman, Egyptian, Brazilian, and Amaru stuff is all nice. It provides contrast and competition to the Europeans.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Its OK, and it is plausible, but industrial, democratic, dominant Europe seems less interesting from a story/adventure standpoint. That is, what makes it significantly different than the other, "official" alternates that are Euro-centric? Like Aeolus (jets and kings) or Cornwallis (Washington defeated)?

Ahh, we want a Eurocentric view of things... I admit, I did not get much time to emphasize those changes:

Europe is united. Not just culturally, but politically. The brotherhood of liberty is at least as strong as the Modern EU, and probably stronger. The French Revolution happened, but the English lacked their colonies and Austria simply didn't exist. The French rearranged the map, conquered half of Europe and forced the rest of it to be allies, and set up a governing body.

Europe is picking up empires rather than releasing them. Yes, they have the eastern half the our US, but its populated by Europeans (french, dutch, english, sweedish). At the TL europe is historically releasing colonies, not picking them up. And associated with that is the rise of colonial attitudes and a nasty streak of racism.

Europe has meaningful rivals: The Ottomans are much healthier than historically, and while China is falling, it isn't down yet.

Finally, I find this world much less euro-centric that others. China has left a much larger mark on the world, and I would argue that this world has two cultural poles, one in the east, and one in the west. The european colonial period is much smaller and restrained, replaced by an Asian one.

----------------------------------------------------

As for the purpose of this world: I admit its an experiment. I rolled it up using a variant on the table in IW and found myself with the following result:

TL6
Western (Empire+Satalite States, Representative Democracy)
Chinese (MultiPolar, 5 states, Feudal)
Andean (Empire, Dictatorship)
Islamic (Bipolar, Clan/tribal)

I then asked myself what would create such a change, and went from there.

I would use this world in a few ways. First and foremost is as a background world. It's not campaign disrupting, yet its a far parallel that lacks the monotony of an echo or a world where only one change was made. Secondly in an actual adventure its a great place to have a war, or to explore colonialism. And its a very ripe for manipulation by either Centrum or Homeline, as they are on a fulcrum of their own history.

Originally Posted by combatmedic

The Europeans seem like the Jacobins writ large.
"European Brotherhood of Liberty'' has much the same creepy tone as ''People's Democratic Republic.'' Is it part of a proper name, or just a slogan used by the Eurocrats?




I'm a bit confused by the ''more conservative mode'' line. Some of the former Chinese colonies are moving into a more conservative mode? Is this bringing them into sharper conflict with the imperialist Europeans? Is it that in order to end the chaos, the Chinese colonists in some places have accepted European domination? Or is it that the Europeans are entering the Bonapartist phase, and some general may soon proclaim himself First Citizen, Protector of the People, or what've have you--- and rule as an autocrat?


The Ottoman, Egyptian, Brazilian, and Amaru stuff is all nice. It provides contrast and competition to the Europeans.

Jacobins writ large is what I was aiming for (or rather what inspired me). I tried to tone them down enough to not implode themselves. I'm glad you could see that. "The Brotherhood of Freedom" is the highest level of European government, placed one level above the national. I haven't fleshed it out much beyond that. Yes, Its supposed to have the creepy 'People's Republic' feel to it!

The Conservative bent is happening in Europe. When I rolled* up recent historical events for europe, It included a suppression of intellectuals, while the Islamic world included a political consolidation of intellectuals-- obviously there is something going on there. I just haven't worked it out yet. The bonaparte stage is certainly one possibly -- though I'm seeing more of crushing of opposition, a limiting of the topic that can legally be discussed, or even just an empire-wide cut in funding or prestige for anyone who isn't doing something 'useful', like growing crops, or designing bridges. I'm quite open to suggestions here.

Thanks for the input everybody!

*Built a simple computer program to bring it up for me quickly and randomly. Its from the Fantasy World-building pyramid. I really like having the look up tables automated. The full results are below (thought things like floods and dragons have been pruned)

Spoiler:  

TL6
Western Empire+Satalite Representative democracy
Chinese MultiPolar 5 Feudal
Andean Empire Dictatorship
Islamic Bipolar Clan/tribal

French Empire
Material tech Development
Big Scare
Legislation
War Neighboring State
Suppression Intellectuals
New Fashion

The Chineese
Legislation
Artistic Development
War Priates/Raiders
Subsistence Development
Scientific Development
Otherworldly breakthrough
Heavy Weather

Incan Kingdom
Massacre
Material tech Development
Political Consolidation Millitary Officers
Subsistence Development

Islamic World
Raids Neighboring Tribe
Decadance
Political Consolidation Intellectuals
Plauge
New Fashion
Religious Revival

The names of the chineese capitals are:

Spoiler:  

Seol
Beijing
Nanjing
Xi'an
Guangzhou

[Drifter]

Sorry ericthered, I didn't mean to come off so negative. I'm glad to see the timeline fleshed out a bit more though :)

[adm]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Perhaps Von Braum could move to the USA in the 1930's to follow the job opportunities. Von Braum was icily opportunistic and self-centered, he didn't like the Nazis but worked for them as the only game in town and played by their rules. Move him to the USA and he's fit in and do for us what he did for the Nazis and with vastly less bloodshed.

Meanwhile, might american mass produced missles pound key targets in Germany collapsing their ecconomy early and shaving ten or more months off the war?

Unlikely, by the last 6 months or so of the war, the Western Allies were pretty much bombing what they wanted to in Germany whenever they wanted. The material to build the rockets would need to come from somewhere, likely from the same sources used to build aircraft. Such a diversion of resources may lead to an overall less successful air campaign.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Perhaps Von Braum could move to the USA in the 1930's to follow the job opportunities. Von Braum was icily opportunistic and self-centered, he didn't like the Nazis but worked for them as the only game in town and played by their rules. Move him to the USA and he's fit in and do for us what he did for the Nazis and with vastly less bloodshed.

The US Army lacks motive to put lots of money into rocket development in the mid-thirties - and doesn't have the money to spend anyway.

The Germans Army's reason for doing it was that the Treaty of Versailles forbade them to have long-range artillery, but said nothing about rockets. They also had money, because re-armament was a consensus position in Germany even before the Nazi takeover.

Developing the V-2 took a long time and a lot of money: it developed an entire field of engineering a long way, rapidly. But the V-2 still took seven years, 1937-1944, to go from a specification to a weapon in production. The US Army wouldn't start that until 1940, which means it's unlikely to be ready before the war ends by other means.

And taking the V-2 project out of the budget probably strengthens Nazi Germany. It was a very poor value for money weapon.

[combatmedic]

WORK IN PROGRESS...











Romanov 9

POD 1904 A.D.
Current Year 1956 A.D.
TL 7



POD: Jacob Schiff dies after being run over by a horse cart while walking down Fifth Avenue in New York City.

Spoiler:  

Russia 1900s-1920s
• Without the benefit of Schiff’s millions in loans, the Japanese proceed with greater caution in East Asia.

• Diplomats reach an eleventh hour agree that prevents war between Russia and Japan.
• Without dissatisfaction over a defeat by Japan and without Schiff’s funding, the revolutionaries in 1905 become more desperate but less effective. Not only does the attempted revolution fail, as in OTL/home line, but it fails in a spectacular fashion after an attempt to murder the Tsar ends with Nicholas wounded and his infant son, Alexei, slain.
• Enraged by the murder of his baby son, Nicholas abandons his previous half-measures and brings the army, the secret police, the Black Hundreds, Cossacks,—all the armed men he can muster-- crashing down on the heads of all the Marxists, Anarchists, and other radicals.
• The patriotic Russian people respond to their emperor call to defend Holy Mother Russia, lynching hundreds of revolutionaries and socialists.
• The Tsar’s wrath does not stop at Russia’s borders. Tsarist agents travel aboard to assassinate Chernov and Lenin, along with numerous other socialists. Other European powers object to Russian agents splattering blood and brains about their cities, but given the undesirable nature of most of the victims, the diplomatic furor fades in time.
• A great many Anarchists and Marxists infiltrate the US, fleeing Europe and Russia

Notes on Korea:

Spoiler:  

Queen Min of Korea was invited to Russia in 1910, as part of Russia's diplomatic efforts (which show more success than in OTL, mainly because the loan-deprived Japanese have less ability to bully Korea). She is out of the country when Japanese agents attempt a palace coup.

Russia does not go to war with Japan over the Korean coup or the invasion that follows, but it does shelter many Korean refugees, including politicians and military officers.
Queen Min remains in Russia as a guest.
Clandestine Russian support for Korean rebels plagues the Japanese.
Political strains over this support contribute to rising tensions between Russia and Japan...

WW1

Spoiler:  

• WW1 plays out in a similar fashion, except that there are no 1917 Revolutions in Russia, and Russia remains a belligerent through the end of the war. The chaos and ghastly human cost of the war threaten political stability; in response the Tsar issues a series of reform decrees that clam dissent and help to improve conditions for the majority of the people. Because Russia sits at the negotiating table, Russian diplomats have the chance to improve Russian’s position and holdings in Eastern/Central Europe.
Inter-bellum
• After the Polish Revolt of 1918, Nicholas proclaims a Grand Duchy of Polonia.
• By 1921, the spasms of revolutionary and counter revolutionary violence have calmed. Russia’s economic development continues apace.
• The worldwide economic depression of the 1930s hits Russia hard, but does not stop the ambitious public works projects the Tsar has undertaken.
• Star Nicholas dies of natural causes and his younger brother ascends the throne as Michael II.
• The Weimar Republic falls into civil war among multiple rival factions: National Socialists, Social Democrats, Marxists, and Monarchists. The National Socialists come out on top, led by Fuhrer Himmler.
• Wallace becomes US president; gov’t agents foil a “Fascist Plot” to overthrow the president.

WW2

Spoiler:  

• Russia never makes a pact with Germany, but opposes Himmlerism from early on. When Germany invades Poland in 1939, the Russians fight back with only feeble promises of support from the French and British.
• Tsar Michael dies and Tsar George takes the throne.
• Russia battles on, almost alone, against the German war machine.
• And then Japan attacks American, British, French, and Dutch holdings in the Pacific in 1941. The United States begins sending aid to Russia.
• The French attack Germany, opening a Western Theatre.
• The War ends with the nuclear destruction of Berlin.
• President Wallace dies in an airplane crash just when the country hits a height of paranoia and tension over rumors of German secret agents and brewing political revolt in the Deep South (where Wallace’s racial reforms have proved deeply unpopular with the majority of whites). A faction backed by the majority of the Cabinet and sympathetic military officers declares a state of emergency and seizes control of the federal government. The fight against the Axis continues…

Post-War years

Spoiler:  

• Korean constitutional monarchy restored by Russian intervention, alliance sealed by treaty

• Russia claims Hokkaido as a governate. Full civil rights granted to the Ainu.
• The rest of Japan falls under US occupation
• The full revelation of what the Himmlerist regime did to the Jews—many of them Russian subjects---horrifies the civilized world. Traditional Russian anti-Jewish feelings soften as the Church, the Tsar, and state newspapers condemn the atrocities committed by the NSDAP.
• Post-war reforms improve civil liberties in the Empire and streamline the bureaucracy.
• De Gaulle smashes socialist revolt and declares himself First Citizen of France

Now, 1956

TL 7
Major power blocs:
Multipolar
• Russian Empire (Orthodox, dictatorship, CR 3)
• United States of America (Western, rep. democracy (oligarchy), CR 4-- CR 5 for locals not affiliated with gov't in some occupied zones of the South)
• France (Western, dictatorship, CR 4)
• British Commonwealth (Western, democracy, CR 3)
• Korea (Korean, democracy, CR 3)

Current events USA
Three way low intensity conflict in Dixie pits the PPP(Populist-Progressive Party)/government against racialists and pro-democracy reformers (the rebels also take shots at each other, unable to form an alliance because the pro-democracy faction includes black members)

Russian-US relations have soured since the joint victory over the Axis.


Notes on Romanov 9

I use Romanov as the designator for timelines in which the Romanovs remain on the throne past 1917/1918.

This timeline remains very much a work in progress.

For adventures, I'm thinking in particular of spy games and brushfire wars:

• French or British agents in the Deep South, trying to undermine US FedGov control
  
• American agents in Hokkaido, trying to foment populist-socialist revolution against the Russian governate
  
• Russian and Korean mercenaries fighting in the service of warlords of the Chinese Republic

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Sorry ericthered, I didn't mean to come off so negative. I'm glad to see the timeline fleshed out a bit more though :)

No worries, it helped me clear up the communication of the idea, both its goals and execution.

[combatmedic]

Jem-1

Current year 2010 AD.


TL 8+
• Advanced/alternate communications, sensors, media TL 9/10
• Emergent AI tech, Eidolons
• Emergent TL 9 medical cyberware
• Cheap and efficient solar cell tech, power balloons

The POD remains murky, but scientific developments diverge in small ways in the 1920s. By the late 60s, this really starts to show in R&D in the USA.

The USA developed very advanced holography, electronic warfare devices, propaganda techniques, and so on during the latter part of the Cold War.
Using this powerful technical edge, the Americans subverted the USSR and Red China, and dealt a punishing military defeat to the former.
By the end of the millennium, the USA and its principal allies, Australia and Japan, stood as the world’s strongest powers. Communism had been so badly whipped that the Cuban navy surrendered to a cruise liner. Russia and China both went through coups, revolutions, and reforms.

Many Infinity observers have remarked that the globalizing pop culture of this timeline looks “1980-ish.”

Solar power has helped reduced the use of fossil fuels. It has also reduced the economic might of several countries, including Canada, Russia, Iran, and the Gulf States.

NAIs have improved productivity and efficiency in many industries.

The SMOM have begun work going all around the world and fitting the disabled poor with basic model prosthetic limbs, replacement eyes, and so on. State and corporate funding support the effort.


major powers:

USA

Japan

Australia